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Post by themaster on Jun 22, 2005 13:31:31 GMT
So what exactly are you proposing, EvilNerfherder? The fact remains that threads do get locked, posts do get deleted and people do get banned (okay, generally temporarily) for the kinds of comments and criticisms which would raise barely a ripple elsewhere. So if someone has a point to make, then what - they PM a mod and get a ban? Or make the point publicly and get a ban? And how does this address the sniping on other boards? Who is to say that non-members of wotwonline don't lurk and then make negative comments elsewhere? How do you 'police' them? Frankly, by making an issue out of it, all it does is encourage those who have low opinions elsewhere to carry on chipping away. I'm with you 100% there, the mods here are all clones of Agatha Trunchbull from matilda "your wrong because im big and your small, im strong and your weak, im right and your wrong and there's nothing you can do about it!" The imdb forums have a reputation of being full of wierdo's who all have an opinion about something they know nothing about, it happens to be true, just as this site has a rap for being modded in an over the top zero tolerance way, happens to be true. Eveilnerfherder has shown himself up to be a closed mind many times, probably a nice guy but always right by default because he's a mod, which is a common trait among the brass here. In order to have a good debate it need two points of view, if one point of view is negative (as it always will be because its down to perspective) then the debate can be fun to the point of being addictive, the urge to log on and find the reply to the last clever post simply to strong to resist. Then Team Fansite: Mod Police turn up with all guns blazing throwing warnings and locked threads about like its going out of fashion Its mediocrity mixed with mild fascism and a dash of delusional grandeur. Im not affraid to say these things which I consider to be true and I refuse to pander to the mods like gnorn etc. I agree totaly with the doKtor (I wonder did he leave of his own accord or was he pushed...? I would like to know if anyone knows?). I'm not saying this site is rubbish, oh no far from it, in the scheme of things its quite good as an information resource but for debate and chit chat it is rubbish and you have the heavy handed mods jumping up and down like children to thank for that although they would blame others, because they are right and everyone else is wrong... Not 'getting paid' doesnt mean you shouldnt do it well, and by well I mean relax and have faith in the flock, most of them are not children and moderate themselves, mods always moan about not getting paid, but none would ever quit their percieved seat of power LOL, stop moaning! And stop calling yourselves 'police', thats just insulting.
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Post by HTT on Jun 22, 2005 13:51:17 GMT
[glow=purple,2,300]That is NOT debate. That is lambasting and insulting the Mods purely to "get a rise" out of them, trying to make excuses for childish behaviour, and an excuse for some humerous one-liners. If a post is offensive, a personal attack, insult, or bad taste, the mods have the right to step in. That's what you signed up for. If you refuse to pander to the rulings that you agreed to, then leave. Simple.
I can't believe some people are still challenging this quite simple concept: 1. You agree to the rules of the forum 2. You break them - the mods asks for things to cool down 3. Continue to break them - the mods issue a warning 4. In Extremis - the mods take action (post amendment, post/thread removal, temp ban, or perm ban)...and this is VERY rare indeed!
Call me a moderator crawly bum lick if you wish, but at least here I know that when offensive material comes up, it will be dealt with appropriately, and remain a pleasant forum to visit.[/glow]
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Post by David Faltskog on Jun 22, 2005 13:52:01 GMT
Ever been a "Mod" Master?, ever been on the recieving end of the b/s that get's doled out on a regular basis?.
People don't become Mod's just to boost their ego's or to make themselves popular, hell the opposite always happens, people you once got on with view you as the "enemy" jump up and down at every post or poster you have to tell to cool it, get abusive crap in your e-mails and PM's, all the sunny stuff that makes life worth giving up.
So how about cutting Nerfy and Horsell, Rob and Bayne(where's he disappered too?) some slack, and if you feel you can do the job better, well do it...See how long you can put up with the Sh!t that comes with this wonderful life of Moderating.
Me?, i,m no god, just a 40 something idiot who feels despite the crap i get handed lucky to be entrusted as a Mod on an ABBA forum, it shows someone has faith in you.
D.F.
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Post by Marcus on Jun 22, 2005 15:18:35 GMT
Im a mod. Random side note. And I run Committee and moderate real time Chat Rooms.
Yes its a hard job, and yes we dont get paid. But hell, I still agree that the Mods can go over the top here.
Does that mean I dont like them as people? No. And Im just making that fact because Nerfy and the others seem to think thats the case.
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Post by beecus on Jun 22, 2005 15:26:27 GMT
With the risk of sounding like an old git... Rules are rules
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Jun 22, 2005 15:29:42 GMT
Im a mod. Random side note. And I run Committee and moderate real time Chat Rooms. Yes its a hard job, and yes we dont get paid. But hell, I still agree that the Mods can go over the top here. Does that mean I dont like them as people? No. And Im just making that fact because Nerfy and the others seem to think thats the case. No dissrespect, you say we go over the top as mods but you don't actually say what is it. It helps us and others to get a better picture and understanding if you can give us a example or two.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Jun 22, 2005 15:30:28 GMT
With the risk of sounding like an old git... Rules are rules cough . . . . old git . . . . cough
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Post by Marcus on Jun 22, 2005 15:36:40 GMT
No dissrespect, you say we go over the top as mods but you don't actually say what is it. It helps us and others to get a better picture and understanding if you can give us a example or two. Eh, no disrespect. Id want the exact same. And really my only gripe is the Pendragon boards, and its not that big of a deal, the rest of the boards are fine. And Im really just seconding the points made by others that I agree with, that yes, some of the topics are locked when I see no due reason. If I recall using a ProBoards MB you can delete indervigual post, no? I cant remenber exactly we upgrading awhile back on the site I mod to a much more complex board. Not to say its better, it has all this features that just slow it down for no particular reason. But Im getting off track. My point is, if I recall right, you can delete, or edit indervigual post. Why not let a topic flow, and if it gets out of hand by one user, or two, just delete their post, or edit it to remove the offensive matterial. Again, I appologize if this is wrong, but it does seem like a more effiecent and fair way to do it. It also cuts out the bother of threads such as this one, and makes for a more peaceful enviroment by eleminating the people like me, who believe that threads are locked for no reason. Which really, keeping the peace is all your trying to do. No?
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Jun 22, 2005 16:22:03 GMT
The Master is entirely entitled to his point of view. It just happens that everything he said is uninformed, unfair and just plain wrong. And I'm saying that not as a mod'jumping up and down', but because it's true. It's pretty easy to sit and fling accusations about isn't it and the great thing is, on the internet, you don't need to even have anything to back it up. This thread was a chance for people to get these gripes out of their system here. I haven't seen much to convince me we are doing anything wrong. Marcus said:My point is, if I recall right, you can delete, or edit indervigual post. Why not let a topic flow, and if it gets out of hand by one user, or two, just delete their post, or edit it to remove the offensive matterial. Actually in most cases that is exactly what we do. We might ask the person not to do it again. Big deal. Thread closing is something we only do if we feel that there isn't going to be anything added to that thread or if it could have been posted in an existing one. Threads are rarely deleted, as I have said before, unless the starting post is offensive. I've discovered (as I suspected) that most of these gripes are down to a complete misunderstanding of what goes on behind the scenes. If we informed you of every move we made you might know what it takes to mod here, and perhaps understand better, especially on the PP board. But we can't do that and don't see why we should have to. You don't see what we delete and if you did we wouldn't be doing our job. I'm beginning to think some people will have their opinions no matter what we say or do. The Doctor left of his own accord by the way.
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Post by Marcus on Jun 22, 2005 18:25:38 GMT
The Master is entirely entitled to his point of view. It just happens that everything he said is uninformed, unfair and just plain wrong. No offence, but doesnt that actually prove exactly what he said about things you disagree we just being ignored and dismissed? Actually in most cases that is exactly what we do. We might ask the person not to do it again. Big deal. Thread closing is something we only do if we feel that there isn't going to be anything added to that thread or if it could have been posted in an existing one. Threads are rarely deleted, as I have said before, unless the starting post is offensive. Well, thats fine. And its good that you do delete those types of post, but really, why close threads if you think their non productive? Wouldnt it be easier to keep them open and have everyone happy. You wouldnt have to deal with upset, and players wouldnt be pissed off their post was locked. Although old Timothy might take offence, but really, so what? He cant take action against the site, because its not Robs opinions, and if he hasnt placed a disclaimer stating that, he should. Or atleast Id recommend it if thats what scares you all. And please, the realism of Timothy Hines really giving two pennies about this site and its players are a Million to One. Although that statistic has been proved wrong before, so, lets not use it. ;D I've discovered (as I suspected) that most of these gripes are down to a complete misunderstanding of what goes on behind the scenes. And no, most of the anger is because threads that we would like to reply in, or participate in our locked for no particular reason. And you only need look at the Boards to know that, not have an intricate understanding of the backstage working. But, all this arguing is getting us no where, because as you said, It just happens that everything ... and just plain wrong , so this debate isnt going to get us anywhere with attitude like that. Because Im going to level that you think that applies for all of us who have something bad to say about the locked threads. Surely the real measure of a good fan site is one where fans can learn to compromise and listen to others opinions? And not doing that is exactly what you lock post for, apparently, but you did nothing to back up your claim that the Master is wrong, just outwardly dissmissed him. It isnt the greatest example of practising what one preaches.
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Post by Marcus on Jun 22, 2005 18:27:24 GMT
ANd good god my grammer is that of a four year olds. Sorry. Long day.
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Post by the Donal on Jun 22, 2005 18:44:08 GMT
Lots and lots of points here but I'll say this as a member that has been around for quite some time:
Yes, everyone is TOTALLY entitled to their opinion, but the site should be moderated on the basis of HOW and to whom the posts are directed- much of the more extreme moderation has come about on the Pendragon topic as people were starting to get quite insulting and unreasonable to each other.
There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion- but when it starts getting into putting other members down purely because of what they like and don't like- that's EXACTLY the same as if people were being banned from the site for their opinions (I don't think this has actually happened by the way). However, saying "I think you're wrong about this because...." or "Yeah, but have you thought about this..." is a world away from "people who think this is good are a bunch of >director's< arse licking sheep etc etc yadda yadda".
Plainly put, there are ways of addressing people and in most cases I've seen, the mods here have behaved in a reasonable manner- both via public warnings in threads and announced warnings to members. If we can't be civil to each other, what's the point? You learn less, get p!ssed off and stop enjoying things as much... Yeas- I think that in a few occasions, the Mods may have been a lilttle heavy handed in blocking a few threads, but they are human beings like the rest of us...
If you can't be decent enough to other forum members and have to keep being asked to calm down, expect to be warned, deleted or banned. If you really don't like that, tough- as for whining about it on other forums! God- is that how low we are getting- playfround politics! Say what you like! It's just a forum, after all. It doesn't take much to think before you say something, and unless you're a a company PA or receptionist, most of us have to think a little further just to type things instead of saying them.
And keeping the childish attitudes will keep it as 'just' a forum- instead of the more entertaining/enlightening gathering of peoples thoughts and opinions that it could be....
Remember- as the title of this thread mentions- if you can't give someone else respect, how the HELL do you expect them to give you respect back?
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Post by lanceradvanced on Jun 22, 2005 19:25:59 GMT
As far as I can see, All he really has to answer for is about $10 dollars and a few hours of my time , neither of which I really objected to spending on his effort...
As the last line of the MSTK song goes... "Just keep in mind it's just a show and you should really just relax!
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Jun 22, 2005 19:49:14 GMT
Marcus, you ask me to prove that everything that the Master said is wrong? How about someone proving that any of it was right? You guys want to fling accusations, surely the onus is on you to back up what you say. I've given opportunities for this but no one has taken me up on it. That speaks volumes. At the end of the day, we are not accountable to you, we are accountable only to the webmaster, Rob. He's the one made the rules that you agreed to when you signed up. It's his site and his perogative. We don't have to explain our actions to anyone and we are doing what we are asked to do in a fair way as we possibly can. Think thats a harsh comment? I'm sure someone is now going to say that that is typical of the mod attitudes here and that therefore every little bit of dirt they fling at us is going to stick. Wrong. We're just tired of trying to answer unfair comments on our work. You've had your chance to prove bad mod practice and you can't. We've gone above and beyond to try and explain ourselves but it appears it has all been pointless. I have argued my case in as plain and fair way as I possibly can and still people think they know better. I wanted to give the 'unhappy' a voice and give my answers in kind. Alas, everything I say has been twisted or ignored, and the same old unsupported crap is still being rolled out. I've given you a chance to speak, support your words and hear my point of view. I am not going to repeat myself like a broken record when everything I say is falling on deaf ears. You don't like it here, you know where the door is. Thats all I have to say.
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Post by Gnorn on Jun 22, 2005 19:52:32 GMT
as for whining about it on other forums! God- is that how low we are getting- playfround politics! Oops! Should I better stop doing that? -Gnorn
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Post by themaster on Jun 22, 2005 19:54:17 GMT
Like I said, mods are right by default, I just got this from Rob
"I have just read the post you made in the disrespect topic. I have to say that I found it insulting to myself and the mods who I think do an excellent job of keeping the site ticking over properly and in a way that has worked for years.
I understand that you don't like the way things are run on the pendragon board, sadly instances in the past have led us to being stricter on that board than any other. Your entitled to your opinion but the way you did it in that post was insulting.
I will not tollerate insults being thrown at people who do good work for this site and so I have decided to give you a warning.
Well my reaction is to leave, I insulted nobody, it was my opinion of the behavior of the brass as I saw it, and how many many others see it accross the net, and Rob old bean you just proved it, you handed out a warning for my post!? LMAO Nerfherder you wanted an example, there you go put that in you pipe and smoke it old chap! A warning for airing my views, instead of addressing my concerns (mind you how can you when im not privvy to what goes on behind the scenes...LMAO) its heavy handed mentality at its blinkered best.
Im sorry Rob but I have to decline your kind offer of a warning as I have prior engagements at much more relaxed forums but before I go I will add that I though nerfherders post to the Doktor was a hell of a lot more insulting using words like 'pathetic' etc.
Right by default.
by all, enjoy the regime! LMAO
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Post by Poyks on Jun 22, 2005 20:06:47 GMT
puff
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Post by Marcus on Jun 22, 2005 20:23:46 GMT
Marcus, you ask me to prove that everything that the Master said is wrong? How about someone proving that any of it was right? You guys want to fling accusations, surely the onus is on you to back up what you say. I've given opportunities for this but no one has taken me up on it. That speaks volumes. At the end of the day, we are not accountable to you, we are accountable only to the webmaster, Rob. He's the one made the rules that you agreed to when you signed up. It's his site and his perogative. We don't have to explain our actions to anyone and we are doing what we are asked to do in a fair way as we possibly can. Think thats a harsh comment? I'm sure someone is now going to say that that is typical of the mod attitudes here and that therefore every little bit of dirt they fling at us is going to stick. Wrong. We're just tired of trying to answer unfair comments on our work. You've had your chance to prove bad mod practice and you can't. We've gone above and beyond to try and explain ourselves but it appears it has all been pointless. I have argued my case in as plain and fair way as I possibly can and still people think they know better. I wanted to give the 'unhappy' a voice and give my answers in kind. Alas, everything I say has been twisted or ignored, and the same old unsupported crap is still being rolled out. I've given you a chance to speak, support your words and hear my point of view. I am not going to repeat myself like a broken record when everything I say is falling on deaf ears. You don't like it here, you know where the door is. Thats all I have to say. Okay, for one I actually sudgested alternatives to the locked threads, so dont insult me my taking that attitude with me. Your pissed off? Dont take the job then. You say we should leave if we dont like the rules? Why dont you if you dont like being critised. Grow up. You want to talk down to me, fine. Ill gladly talk down to you. You think are arguements or armchair revolutions and playground behavior, fine. You got it. And dont ask me to support my claims when you out and out dont support yours. Dont be so arrogant. And I dont feel that I have to link to every page thats been locked, other people has presented their problems, and Im seconding theres. You talk about offensive post but yet you started this topic with words like perfetic and the like... dont be so two faced to yourself. Your a mod, well done. Your not a very good one, mores the pity. Look, I have nothing against you as a person, and I didnt particulary mind your modding, I had mild complainets, yes... but your attitude here only proves that you clearly cant discuss in a mature way... and yet this is the reason you claim to lock threads? And what of the thread about Timothy jumping on Paramounts tail...? Why was that locked? Could it be something bad was said about Jeff Wayne? God forbid it came across that way. I really dont think that, but it does come across this way. And yes, we agreed to the rules, I believe you go overboard with them. And okay, offencive post that are none productive... okay... ATL recently posted in Off Topic, a post that I found offensive, and was clearly an attack on members of the forum who dont bow to his opinion. You posted in it. Was this an offencive post? I think it was. Again, you posted in it. But yet you claim you do your job, or that their is no such thing as preferential treatment. If this site isnt about expressing ones opinion, which is really all the Master was doing, then why is their a Message Board? Surely it would be easier just to scrap it and keep the site alone? I didnt talk down to you, so dont do it too me. I might not have a few extra buttons like you do, but I think Ive proved my worth just as much as you have. And if its Mod Status you want to go off, fine... Ill link you to the sites where I am a mod, and where I am a Admin, and room owner. And where my duties out way yours, and where Im still better at it. Is this post childish? Yes, it is. And Im fully aware of it, but you seem to think anything said against is bad, so whats the point of saying it in a good way?
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Post by mctoddridesagain on Jun 22, 2005 20:40:48 GMT
Checkmate.
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Post by Ashe Raven on Jun 22, 2005 21:42:08 GMT
No
Simple matter is this
1: Your rude 2: Your insulting 3: I drag a dead horse 4: You rub salt 5: You complain when you don't get the oportunity to continue to behave like children 6: I don't see checkmate, I see a group of children who wont let anything lie. They have to drag a corpse through the sand. Or knock anyone who doesnt even slightly share you point of view. The attacks have been from you, not the other way round.
Cant bear with me being blunt? Tough, I tried to be nice, but I'm no door mat, and neithr should the Mods be.
Bear this in mind, I'll probably be told off for this post by Nerfy again. I may not agree with it, but at the same time, I can't sit by and see this crap go on quietly. But he's doing his job, I have to accept that.
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