Why i do NOT support Pendragon

[RustiSwordz]

OK if people are going to be blunt ill be blunt in return.

Tim Hinds is an insult. A travesty to a story that i grew up with as a child, the streets where i live, the area where i belong.

The story demands no less but the cream of TV and or Film to work upon it. And a budget to match it. What is his pedigree? One arthouse POS that has been seen in one Cannes convention.

Oh whoop de do

I dare say that the film will be a brave attempt. But the whole thing smacks of the glaring unprofessionalism of a production that knows they have taken on something so over their station its untrue. The website is no better than my own one and i made that myself!
The so called trailers were revealed as 'teaser trailers' and PP insisted as such. The trailers were previs slap togethers not proper trailers. If PP were to say 'hey these are unfinished effects, bear with us' then i would have accepted it.

The knee jerk reaction to 911 and the tsunami. Maybe this is a British/ Yank thing but i dont see the point of suspending your project to protect a few bleeding hearts. In fact all it did was allow Spielberg to move in and steal PP's origonal idea. Talk of dropping the ball or what!
I have an idea of a TV series and ill hold on to this idea short of selling my soul. Believe in what you do then that is what you have to do. Damn the torpedoes full steam ahead!

I wish PP would step aside and let someone with a bit of experience turn this story into a decent mini series or movie. Now they have made this film and now no one will touch it. A life dream for me flushed down the toilet. Thanks guys.

Even if this film turns out to be everything i expect or want, the legalities means it will never see the light of day in the UK. Between SS and Jeff wayne, PP has been stepped on and this is no David Vs Goliath this is professionals beating the little man to a pulp then leaving the body in a ditch. I will probably have no choice but to borrow beg steal or illegally download this film if im ever to see it.

I got so many other things i can say, but ill be here all day and frankly i'm tired of the arguments.

It may be a brilliant film. But all the evidence points to nothing but a disaster and im not hopeful at all.

[Gerkinman]

here here

[Rob]

I appreciate your view Rusti, you know I don't agree with it all.

I just wanted to post to ask that this thread is kept calm, this is a very emotive subject at the moment.

[RustiSwordz]

I agree Rob. I just wanted to provide a post that was a counterpoint to Baynes support thread.

Both threads need to be calm.

[Lucius909]

Whatever you may think of him personally, your implication that Hines somehow has no right to attempt to make the film is very unfair - he can make any film he wants (at least, in the artistic, rather than legal sense) and you can't stop him, and frankly you have no call to.

I am just about to premiere my first film - only a short, but it's taken me 8 years to get to this point. No-one is going to tell me "you are a first time writer, this subject is very close to my heart, thus you cannot make it as you won't be good enough" - the inherent amount of talent Hines may or probably doesn't have is utterly irrelevant. You don't own the project just because you like the book and come from Woking. Doesn't work like that.

Yep, it's probably not going to be any good - but that isn't the point. At least where I was brought up, kircudbright in SW Scotland, has a very good film associated with it - namely "The Wicker Man". You can even see my old house in one shot, although I wasn't there at the time.

[McTodd]

Why should Hines's 'right' to make the WotW be defended?

I'm getting bored of this nimminy pimminy attitude that says that anyone has the 'right' to make a film, no matter their credentials or talent, no matter what a pig's ear they make of it.

Congratulations to you Lucius909 for completing your film, that's a great achievement. But you've answered your question yourself when you say that it's a short - nowhere do I read in your post that you have, as a tyro film-maker, attempted to film one of the great works of genre literature. You also answer another question by mentioning The Wicker Man - a brilliant film, but what has that to do with Hines? It's like comparing a diamond with a turd. Please do not let your struggles as an aspirant film-maker blindly lead you to side with Hines simply because you regard him as a fellow artiste.

Hines is clearly a talentless hack whose track record speaks volumes for that lack of talent: no film that has achieved a release (and please don't throw at me the one cinema he showed Bug Wars at); and what can be seen of those films on his own website demonstrates clearly why they have never been released (that's when they've even been completed) - cheap, shoddily filmed, derivative trash that only an uncritical fanboy could sit through; the appalling website (the guy is supposed to be promoting himself, yet he can't cobble together a website better than my flatmate's cat could design); his insulting mendacity at every stage of the PR process; I could go on (and have elsewhere).

Back in the 1980s, Starlog published Cinemagic, a cracking little magazine for amateur sf and fantasy film-makers, full of articles and tips on doing sfx on the cheap. It had a bulletin board where readers would publicise their films, sort of a Readers' (Own) Movies page. They all looked like great fun; most were very derivative, mostly being made by teenagers starting out (most of whom probably never made another film again anyway); some looked very promising, even at that stage; all looked like a laugh, most were probably more fun to make than for others to watch.

Hines is one of them, but with delusions of grandeur, trying to fob off his fanboy film on the world as the Next Big Thing. Don't make allowances.

Face it, we're only arguing about this because it's The War of the Worlds. If it was just Chrome, nobody would give a flying toss. Don't conflate the brilliance of the source material with the ineptitude of Hines.

[Ashe Raven]

The irony in your aurgument is the hypcorsy it presents.

You Pendragon haters have a a constant habit of siting free speech and freedom in general, yet you claim to have a right to deny, no from the tone, demand, Pendragon not make the film, thus impinging on his right not to make the film, no matter how underfunded he may be.

[McTodd]

He can make his crummy attempt for all I care, but I don't see why he should be defended when he clearly has no talent - that's not hypocrisy.

[Ashe Raven]

"He can make his crummy attempt for all I care, but I don't see why he should be defended when he clearly has no talent - that's not hypocrisy."

It is. You deny a persons right to defend his attempt, even if thats all it is, by those very words. Sorry, but you cant have it your way, and deny someone else the right not to share your derilation.

As Bayne said, if you don't like the effort, then change the channel. No one is forcing you towatch this film or to discuss it. Only you it seems.

[McTodd]

Ashe, if you can't recognise irony, then don't read my posts.

My attitude to Hines's hamfisted botch job is the same as the motorist who gets cut up and cries in exasperation, 'They shouldn't let people like that on the road'. Quite frankly, letting someone like Hines loose on WotW is like putting Myra Hindley in charge of a nursery.

Don't be so literal.

No one is forcing you to watch this film or to discuss it. Only you it seems.

By the way Ashe, it may have escaped your attention in your laudable haste to refute my argument, but as someone else started this thread, I am clearly not the only person who wants to discuss this.

[theheatray]

I am not a 'Pendragon hater' or a member of some secret order aka 'anti hines brigade' and to label me with some nasty general rubber stamp would be a mistake and it would be unfair.
There is no counter points I can think of about Mr Hines, he has shown his quality many times, making those who supported him feel foolish many times, with grand baseless claims and great big fat lies, the defence of that man has long colapsed.
Pendragon does have the right to make any film it wants with in copyright law, no argumant there. The problem is that they are lying to the masses over their product.
Like I said, do not brand me into some club or little box, I am not a borg, I think for my self.
I found no hypocricy in Mr McTodds post, I think you Mr Asheraven were looking for falt a little too hard, just a friendly observation.
Mr Swords post was full of emotion, they are his vews, hes not demanding anyone agree with him, surely thats the point of the forum? In reading it again I agree with the core elements.
Mr Hines does not deserve praise, he does not deserve support. I f his film comes out on any format then good for him, but be under no illusion this isnt some holy crusade for us fans, its how he makes money, its his chosen career, if he fails in his chosen career its time to move on.
Mr Lucius909, remember that you are just starting out on your first film, Hines has attempted many over the last decade, all have failed completely, never making it to even the box office, is this the man to be trusted with H G Wells the war of the worlds? Yes he has the right to make it, he hasnt the right to do it in our name.

[Ashe Raven]

McTodd, I am not making a snap at you.

I am merely contributing to the discussion. That is what Forum is for. You make an opinion, I make an opinion. Whilst the two do not mesh, they are not attacks. I think this is the major issue with the whole affair.

Emotion and misinterpretation and the unwillingness to accept the view of the other.

Now, I suggst you go back, read my post in the light is was meant and please rephrase your accuasation ^^

[McTodd]

As you say, Ashe, this is a very emotive subject.

If Hines gave any impression of ability and talent, I would be praising him to the skies, as I am far more interested in a period adaptation (hence my relative lack of posts in the Spielberg section - frankly, he doesn't interest me very much).

I have modified my post accordingly in a spirit of reconciliation.

I shall now withdraw from discussion of the whole issue, as quite frankly it galls me too much.

[Sputnik]

I don't support Hines and Pendragon either. Why would I support somebody who cannot meet deadlines or be factualy wrong in interviews?

Will I watch his movie? Yes...

[flynnsixtysix]

I support Hines right to make the movie, I would even defend it should someone attempt to block him - but it's going to be like something made in the 1960's or 70's - think 'Those magnificent men in their flying machines' or 'The Great Race' standard lots of people and pupetts suspended on string pulling outgragous faces at things you don't actually ever get to see in the same shot or maybe only as a tentacly outline in shadow moving across someones horrified face - people should prepare themselves for that right now. Our best hope lies in the fact that the puppet master maybe an undiscovered harry harryhausen-esque genius..

Hines has had 5 or 6 movies under his belt - no ones ever seen them but the website claims they exist - anyone of them would have revealed if he were some kind of undiscovered lost genius of cinema - they didn't - they suggested exactly what we know to be the truth - he ain't the genius on this flick.

HE LUCKED INTO A BIG WAD OF CASH

and it's not only tim - what about Susan Goforth I mean she's managed to produce this and others with Tim at the helm - I mean doesn't the producer always watch the money, the deadlines ??

That's it - it's only US WOTW fan's that actually give a crap about his chance long shot of a movie and he's flicked the V's at us all the way down the line - look at how open Jeff is with us - even spielberg has a constant stream of news and info - hines uses ( sorry charles no offence meant ) a single guy who posts occasional 'rebuttal' style PR announcements which seem ONLY aimed at this site and this sites concerns. Certonaly is not a world class company with millions of dollars - end of story. In any other world this film would not be getting made. Man, if Jordowksi couldn't even get Dune made with Gieger doing the set design how in craps name did this thing get a $42/20/2/? mill green light/

It is the dishonestly I detest. If this guy had said 'Hey, were onyl 20 people - we got zero money and well there is a chance - BOY WOULD WE BE RALLYING AROUND HIM!!! "

but no he has to play big man about town - I've got $42mill, my heart is broken so I suspended production, I got amazing talents on board, we got state of the art CGI -

Its been sh*t and lies all the way. I DO support them - I just think they are rank amateurs, and that's what were getting. Modern technology has allowed any old tim, dick and mary to make a movie - WOTW is public domain - it was bound to happen.

just give us the f**king truth...

[Marztok]

Let's be realistic here. Supporting or not supporting the Hines project amounts to the few words we post on this board. That really has no impact on the course of the actual movie project.

The Pendragon film will be completed and be released at some point and then we can decide whether we like it or not.

What I do find questionable is the assumption that if the project were in the hands of one more experienced and with unlimited funds at his disposal, then the resulting movie would inevitably be a masterpiece.

As I pointed out in another thread, you need only to look back three years ago at DreamWorks' adaptation of The Time Machine: Major cash, fine talent, major disappointment.

The fact is that when there are large sums of money involved, the supplier of the funds wants control over the story and wants a return on his investment. The first thing he'll do is dump the Wells story and replace it with the "Hollywood recipe". Don't agree ? Just take a look at the Spielberg version: Major money, major revisions.

I think many people forget how difficult it is to get such a project off the ground. There were at least two serious attempts in the nineties. Both were looking great, but both were thwarted due to copyright problems. That Hines was able to complete his version is a feat in itself - no matter what it turns out to be.

I don't know what to expect from Hines, but I don't expect anything more from Spielberg or Wayne. I am just curious to see what they come up with. But it's pretty clear to me that no other movie or TV adaptation will be allowed until January 2017, so that's what we'll have to live with until then.

[flynnsixtysix]

That's true Marztok - although don't tar spielberg and Wayne with Hines brush - they got started with nothing - look at Duel - no budget but a hell of a gripping little flick even in I find the idea that all american cars spin out of control at 70miles an hour truly bizzare.. People are knocking spielberg to validate hines - wrong - spielberg would have known better than to try to do Jurassic Park as his first movie using hand puppets..

Man, even Jaws only had half a shark and look at how amazing that was!! HIS THIRD MOVIE!!

Hines second movie was house of the rising....rising what ? rising damp ? a one take scriptless video of an evening at a cocktail part in seattle - bet it was the same one he chummed up with mr microdollars...maybe filmed him getting high and lowdown with some sleezing chick - explains the big budget.

I certainly applaude him in one respect - It's INCREDIBLE that he's got this far and for that he get's my uttermost respect. He should be proud of that.

For all the other nonsense, crap and secrecy - he loses it.

[Marztok]

I did not "knock Spielberg" nor am I trying to validate Hines.

I pointed out one simple fact: Where there is major money, there are major revisions to a classic of literature.

I am mainly interested in a period adaptation, not in a mega-million dollar project that dumps the original Wells story.

Whether Hines delivers remains to be seen. But what we say here won't change anything...

Let's wait and see.

[theheatray]

Is it not more logical to judge Mr Spielbergs film based on its own merrits rather than right it off because its not the project you may have wanted him to make? He could have made the faithful book adaptaion and then it might have been rubbish, hes made his own movie and it might be brilliant, surely its better not to have tantrums where by you cut of your nose to spite your face, like my mum used to say "no use stamping your feet, you will get what your given!".

[Sputnik]

It is the dishonestly I detest. If this guy had said 'Hey, were onyl 20 people - we got zero money and well there is a chance - BOY WOULD WE BE RALLYING AROUND HIM!!! "


Bingo! The people who post here would normally be the ones promoting Hines and his film. Unfortunately, it's hard to do when all we've seen is a myriad of lies and hoopla.