The tripods in the new film

[TOMAHAWK]

ok as we all know this is going to be set in modern times..right

SO Here we have the martians and their tripods right

Now the tripods must be modernised to fit within the time frame, if we go back to HG Well's time frame the tripods were better then anything we when the martians had the advantage.

So Unfortunately this modernised martian tripod will be so up armoured with major leaque weapons systems bearing in mind it HAS to be better then our BEST modern day weapons .. cos otherwise whats the point of the martians sending inferior fighting machines!!!!

Surely this is going to spoil it slightly as the martians are not meant to be massivley advanced (remember we still killed a few it's is only the black smoke that prevented our batterys from killing more).

Won't this destroy the image of the slightly quaint but powerful tripod ala the 1900 version for a massively powerful hum dinger of a machine.

For instance the JW version wouldn't stand much of a chance against modern day weapons ... not unless it was up armed/armoured and then it would lose much of it's character surely!!

just some thoughts

[TOMAHAWK]

Oh yes i forgot - EMP .. now even with that they still would have a hard time

(I think the emp is a big cop out anyway and I don't wanna see it)

[I own a cylinder]

YEAHHH!!! some1 whom agrees with me!

[TOMAHAWK]

glad to be of service ;D ;D ;D

[VES]

You do make a really valid point, which is one of
my main concerns with this film; current day
standards.
While the EMP is a viable reason why the human
race would be royally screwed, the Tripods themselves
would indeed have to undergo a severe upgrade to
meet today's technological standards.

Meaning to me, they would lose some of the "charm"
so to speak, that they had in the original story.
As long as Speilberg stays true to the basic concept
of the Martian war machines, I think I'll be satisfied.
*shrugs*

Another interesting point; would the first falling
star show up on satelite defense systems?
Not much of a suprise attack, is it?
Or would it simply be considered a meteor and
nothing more on radar?

[nervouspete]

There's several things to consider:

I think we do the original tripods a slight disservice in their design. The heat ray seemes to be able to project both narrow beams (against the Thunderchild) and wide beams (on the commons, Weybridge) for general suppression. If the tripod moves quickly and the heat ray has range along, and its targetting systems are advanced enough to respond to multiple threats as and when they appear - and the tentacles holding the ray dextrous enough - I can imagine a tripod knocking tanks out at short range before they can lock and missiles from long range homing in.

And that's WITHOUT EMP being used. The only threats would be the hidden emplacements.

I'd imagine a very fast point defence system on the new tripods, whereby they could focus on and shoot down incoming threats in the blink of an eye - but still neatly leaving them vulnerable to very close range surprise attacks. Thus forcing them to deploy Black Smoke.

But if EMP is used, I think that would be very cool. It would reduce the exodus to one on foot and knock away humanity's crutches. The effects as it is employed would make good and tense cinema as everyone wonders what is going on (read my fan-fic 'Blossom Burning' for the opening reaction to this... promote promote) and it would reduce humanity to the footing it was in the Well's novel.

And the martians would be treating EMP as their primary weapon against our military, heat-rays and black smoke would be added 'pest control' from that point it as they suppress and harvest us. They wouldn't NEED anything else, and therefore the charm and horror of the designs would still be there.

That's my theory anyway. I think it'll work.

(He said, continuing his relentlessly annoying chipper theme of faith in Spielberg)

Pete

[spelky]

But if we 've lost all computer systems because the Martians have fried our chips then we won't have any early warning after the initial attack, no guidance for the weapons, no comms, no vehicles working except classics, (the best ones anyway)

In saying that we will still have some formiddable weapons but I am not enough of an expert to know for example if the main US battle tank , the Abrams, can function without it's computer systems, it's probably shielded against EMP so bang goes that theory!

[timeship2]

Why are we making the assumption that the technology we have today is suddenly equal to what these machines possess, therefore meaning they are no longer capable of inflicting much damage?

Isn't the point of a Science Fiction film, that of imagination ie that they may have weapons and technology of which we cannot conceive?

To those who scoff, remember at the beginning of the last century, they were beginning to think that Science itself was coming to a dead end in that everything had been discovered and invented already! We laugh now in this age of computers but to them, they couldn't possibly see further than that.

In fact even this very internet that we use wasn't predicted in Science Fiction, yet the idea of networking computers across the globe seems so obvious now!

Of course many will say, ah but we have to stick to the known laws of Physics to make it believable or else we end up in fantasy land. Just read some hard science fiction and you can see there is still room even with that 'restriction' for imagination to run wild.

[EvilNerfherder]

Good points, Timeship.
The whole point of the novel is that the Martian technology is far beyond our comprehension and alien to us. Even if we have moved on technologically since those days, that's not to say that the Martian weapons aren't still far beyond anything we have.
It's like I said in another thread, we need a couple of small victories,as in the novel, but we still need to be technologically ineffective against them.
We may have computer chips in our weapons now but all the same they should still be 'bows and arrows against the lightning'.
Even the JW fighting machine, which everyone thinks so ineffective, has a heat ray weapon that produces temperatures hotter than the sun's surface. Check out the blueprints...

[Rust]

Yeah, I don't think 100 years is gonna matter to an alien race still thousands and thousands of years ahead of us.

I imagine we'll see some unimaginable foes in the martians with their tripods being reminiscent to the Sentinels in the Matrix, both in design and agility.

Imagine THIS thing 10 times the size and 50 times more lethal.

[maniacs]

Yeah, I had this image that the FM would be agile enough to be jumping, climbing etc. Our radar systems rely on metalic surfaces and heat to lock on. Suppose the FM was not really a metal despite it's surface and it actually generated no heat.

When it feels threatened it can sprint faster than a train, leap onto its opponant like a cat, rip it apart with tentacles and then as other foes shoot at it, it quickly leaps out of the way, grabbing a tower and climbing up it letteing rip with the heatray etc

Is it any less agile than Wells, some of it maybe.

[<[Iron Man]>]

I personally would like to see both sides getting 'clobbered'. Since in the books we did score a few kills, if they didn't have the gas their invasion may have been halted/delayed a while longer.

EMP would have to be the new weapon, since if they used 'gas' then we'd throw it right back at them. I'm sure against a more advanced foe we would use anything at our disposal, mustard gas (burns),chlorine gas (choke), nerve gas, anthrax etc...considering they breathe just as we do they'd be screwed.

They use EMP and they'll knock out a lot of Military vehicles. However we do have protection against EMP in the guise of hardened circuits/materials. Which i would like to see used.

The book only concentrated on South England, so we didn't see more of the 'global battle'. Due to the story having moved on, it would be nice to see us killing more of them. However even if we kill hundreds it would be too little too late and won't make a difference to the outcome of the war. So TO that degree, our technology is ineffective.

Even if they're more advanced than us it's still possible they've over-engineered their machines. For instance have any of the machines fought anything like we have? Do they have adequate protection against projectile explosive weapons? If they fire heat rays and heat rays only as an offensive weapon then it is fair to speculate that their shielding is against similar weapons.

Think of it this way, the NASA Space Shuttle underneath has heat resistant tiles to withstand extreme heat (not the sun's obviously! lol). However it may not provide good protection against anything hitting it.

I hope people get my analogy. Since we want WOTW then yes we need to stick to the story so they need to overpower us. However all i'm saying is there's nothing wrong in showing that we can hurt back. It's not a show of power or to feed the 'firepower fanatics' as myself, just shows we can make a difference.

We can't win through the Military, nor can we inflict too much damage. However killing hundreds of Martians is nothing if you think about the global invasion force?

Maybe we could have a similar type battle to LOTR:ROTK, where we send a token force to try and hold them off while the civilians and soldiers evacuate. We're outnumbered and outgunned but we still fight, then low and behold they drop to the floor. Dead and buried.

I also want to put in a suggestion about the Thunderchild. I'll keep it brief, a NATO fleet is conducting wargames off the east coast of North America. Invasion happens, many ships are lost, so the remaining ships that can carry on form a new fleet led by the HMS Thunderchild. Which has the hardened materials to withstand EMP. So it knocks out a few Martians delays them while some of the other ships evacuate civilians and military personnel?

Sorry for blabbering but not many people will argue FOR the Military, so i will ;D

[<[Iron Man]>]

"Yeah, I had this image that the FM would be agile enough to be jumping, climbing etc. Our radar systems rely on metalic surfaces and heat to lock on. Suppose the FM was not really a metal despite it's surface and it actually generated no heat.

When it feels threatened it can sprint faster than a train, leap onto its opponant like a cat, rip it apart with tentacles and then as other foes shoot at it, it quickly leaps out of the way, grabbing a tower and climbing up it letteing rip with the heatray etc

Is it any less agile than Wells, some of it maybe."

I don't mean to come across in the wrong way but you're a little incorrect on radar. It doesn't rely on metal or heat, i think you confused heat with IR (infra red) technology. Radar requires an object with right angles and material that doesn't absorb radar waves.

Although if the FM's and Tripods fire heat rays that are hotter than the sun then (a) that requires a lot of energy no matter how advanced you are, (b) it would give off A LOT of heat. Meaning IR missiles could easily lock on.

An M2 Bradley APC armed with missiles could probably lock on.

Unless they've somehow able to mask that amount of heat and energy. Then yes IR wouldn't really do much....unless you marked the target with flares or something that gives of heat. Or you could paint the target with a laser, then a missiles would lock on.

Sorry i'm blabbering again hehe

Hope that helped!

[RustiSwordz]

I wouldnt have the Fighting machines running and jumping like the Matrix Sentinals. Afterall the tripods are over a 100 feet high!

But fast, manoverable, nimble and deadly would be the order of the day.

[<[Iron Man]>]

Unless the FMs move very slowly, and bulky but heavily armed and armoured?

Making it harder for Jet Fighters to get near or something?

[mars2005]

i reacon the tripods will have 3 guns instead of one ;D, and there be 2 lasers and 1 heat ray at the front. the lazers are to knock out any incoming rockets missles ect.... and some tripods will have air to ground bombs/missles. but they are durable to bullets....... the martians will have flying machines bit like in the terminator film, and anti EMP - ya got to remember they have andvance technology they also might have stealth which none of you guys of thought of, but be seen when firing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[RustiSwordz]

Stealth to our sensor systems, but please, please, please NO STAR TREK STYLE CLOKING DEVICES..........

Boring!

[x200]

ok ok, hit me with a heatray if you like, but.. I do say your all (or atleast a vast majority) of you are going about this the wrong way.. if I dare use the term.. your thinking "too american"... "oh we'll overcome there technology" blah blah blah..

one must point out, that the usage of EMP weaponry is one of the few ways that spielburg CAN use tripods in a "modernised" version. .in essence, turning modern day america into 1800s england/america.. where the tripod weaponry in all its forms is viable

there will be no special EMP shileded weaponry, ship mounted super laser beams or such like.. alot of people have to seriously get over that ID4 type thinking of, whatever they got.. we can do better

now, to think logicly on the subject.. WITHOUT computers.. there was still technology, still terrible war machines. .most of which while quite advanced from wells time, works on the same princibles.. I dont think the tripods need to be super modified at all..

think for a moment, about cruise, his old cars.. they'll function.. that in itself makes a point.. theres PLENTY of museams about, each having fully servicable aircraft from ww2 and the early vietnam era.. stuff that doesnt use EMP sencitive weaponry.. and while not the biggest challenge to the tripods.. as said previously by someone in this thread.. it should be able to score some kills just like the 1800s era weaponry did against the same machines,

"fighting machines" such as ww2 era fighters, bombers, tanks such as the M60 should be able to function without EMP. .or an earlyer american tank.. M1s are full of computers. .same with modern destroyer vessels.. however.. ye olde battle wagons.. (ww2 destroyer/cruiser) with there massive guns.. would still be effective against tripods just as the thunderchild would be.. they dont have any computers .. or if at all.. very minimal technology that dictates they'll be dead after EMP weapons are used.. electric motors will still function. .along with analog circuitry used to control gun turrets, aiming, loading etc etc

no doubt the tripods will be impressive machines.. but you dont have to go thinking up glorious unrealistic scenarios about how to save or use modern EMP sencitive technology against the tripods.. when just stepping back a few decades in terms of warfare.. which by the way is just as leathal.. would do just fine

[<[Iron Man]>]

^^

Sorry to burst your bubble but you're wrong on a few counts there. Firstly i'd like to say that it's unfair to criticise other people for being 'ID4 gung-ho' or whatever. If anything i think i'm the person most responsible for that. So blame me, i may be a 'Military nut' but at least i'm a knowledgeable Military Nut.

First of all you are correct about the effects of EMP...

www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw040726_1_n.shtml (10th time lol)

However there IS protection against EMP. There's no 'ID4ing' or whatever you want to call it. Although it can be expensive it is possible to have hardened circuits and materials to protect against EMP.

For instance i'm aware that the M1 is able to withstand a nuclear explosion from a certain distance, which would suggest to me that it has a form of EMP protection. The M1 runs on a gas turbine engine, so i don't know if EMP would affect it.

You need to remember that EMP has been made aware of since the 1960's, you'd think the Military would have an idea of how defend against it.

I understand your points that it shouldn't by our Military who wins. That is war, that is part of war. I mean the title is called 'War of the Worlds' is it not? Surely that wouldn't suggest some form of conflict?

How is it 'unrealistic' to dream of scenarios where we fight Tripods with modern weaponry? Yeah as if they're break into a military museum, steal a couple of old war machines and kill some Martians. I understand about older form of combat working, but i don't think Military would rely on old machines when the ones they currently have are adequate.

For instance the M198 Howitzer is a good example of modern field artillery that you'd like, which isn't old.



The MLRS & M109A6 Paladin artillery machines are very lethal and would pound any opposition to the ground, they could probably fire without electronics.

"fighting machines" such as ww2 era fighters, bombers, tanks such as the M60 should be able to function without EMP. .or an earlyer american tank.. M1s are full of computers. .same with modern destroyer vessels.. however.. ye olde battle wagons.. (ww2 destroyer/cruiser) with there massive guns.. would still be effective against tripods just as the thunderchild would be.. they dont have any computers .. or if at all.. very minimal technology that dictates they'll be dead after EMP weapons are used.. electric motors will still function. .along with analog circuitry used to control gun turrets, aiming, loading etc etc

Using an M60 Patton and an old Destroyer with big guns? If that isn't 'too american' then i don't know what is.

Pal's 53 WOTW was alright but a little disappointing. You see the Martians were untouchable which spoils the story a little. By knocking down a few of them it instills the will to carry on, to keep fighting.

Now this is a global invasion, so it would stand to reason that in some parts of the world, i.e Kansas, the Military may be doing better compared to others. While in Jersey they be completely pummelled.

This is not about being glorious or showing off our firepower and making ourselves feel great. It's about survival, oure and simple, us or them. When the Martians come down, the only welcoming party they're going to get is a load of artillery and tank shells heading their way. Whether they're successful is up to the story teller.

However i would like to add, that although Wells only credited us with a few victories he didn't show the entirety of the conflict, only a local view on things. By showing a slighty more expanded story you can include a few more victories without damaging the story.

Even if the Military were successful in repelling some Martians, do they have the resources, manpower and materials to keep fighting? Can we afford using our advanced weapons against them? What happens when our stockpiles run out?

IN THAT WAY our technology is our downfall...then nothing can save us except for a microscopic bacteria.

there will be no special EMP shileded weaponry, ship mounted super laser beams or such like.. alot of people have to seriously get over that ID4 type thinking of, whatever they got.. we can do better

Since when did we suggest using anything like ID4? I didn't see any mention of Big Green laser beams, a Black fighter pilot who saves the day, an Apple Mac that delivers a virus, none of that.

All i've said is i'd love to see big battles that don't compromise the story.

[mars2005]

exactley thank you iron man, can you prove that the tripods wont have that kind of technology NO! because that was my image of what my tripods would be. so in u think that jeff waynes machines will beat us hahahahahahaahahah! we actualy killed some tripods with our cannons so imagine what we could kill know. were using modern day life, so think of stargate, cheesey i know but remember thor the alien ship. thats what technology the martions would have.