Tim Hinds sues Dark Horse! This man is fulla it

[Commandingtripod]

mctoddridesagain said:

commandingtripod said:

Unless someone can prove me wrong, I don't believe that there ever was an image of their fighting machine (Standing up or anything close to it) on the net.

Hateful as it is to prove you wrong when you clearly (and sensibly) have no sympathy with Little Timbo's latest appalling shenanigans, but Timmy Boy did actually post some pre-prod concept art on his site in 2001 when he was planning a modern-day version set in Seattle, but the designs were very different from the ghastly Meccano Chickens he inflicted upon us in his so-called film. Boggle-eyed moron.

Damn it!

2001, hm let me see, did I even know that they were making this movie - including them having those pictures up, um - no!

[David Faltskog]

mctoddridesagain said:

Yes! Anthony at EOTW posted this, Little Timbo's latest mentally-disordered rant:

forums.eveofthewar.com/showthread.php?t=5418&page=8

Hey everyone, thanks for...(Bullsh!t snipped)

So we're all in the pay of the evil Paramount and Dark Horse and Uncle Tom Cobbly and All.

So where's my payment? has anyone recieved payment for our blatent shilling? or is Timmy "mallet" Hines full of it?

D.F.

[EvilNerfherder]

Hines is full of it.
I can't speak for every member here, obviously, but no Moderator on this site, a fansite, gets paid at all, by anyone, for their views or for the work they do on it. Personally, I would take a dim view of it if I found anyone here was on the payroll of ANY of the companies involved in this farce.

[David Faltskog]

Yep i was being ironical or moronical take yer pick.

I know no one's been payed but Hinez Baked Beans seems to think we're all shilling till the cash cow comes home.

Hey! Timbo SUE ME i once drew a pic of a fighting machine that had 3 YES 3 legs!!! (granted i was 14 at the time) i was obviously ripping off your Magnificent Octopuss (tm) sorry Opus.

D.F.

[mctoddridesagain]

commandingtripod said:

2001, hm let me see, did I even know that they were making this movie - including them having those pictures up, um - no!

A lot of us did know about it in 2001, including me, which is why so many of us were so unbelievably hacked off when that so-called film was released. In fact, I'd bet at least a fiver that the most bitter people (among whom I happily include myself) are the ones who waited longest for Little Timbo to get his rancid act together.

Brief Historical Note:

When this forum originally started up, Little Timbo had been promoting his forthcoming 'epic' for years. Some of us could see from his amateurish website and awful stills that it was a stinker in the making, but others were happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, you know, 'You can't condemn it until it's released', that sort of thing.

In fact, the arguments got very rancorous and bitter, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I was probably one of the worst offenders. The Anti-Hines Brigade just could not believe that the Pro-Hines Crowd (or Pendophiles, as I shall refer to them from now on) were prepared to give Pendragon the benefit of the doubt given the lousy rubbish Timmy was showing. The forum split in a Great Schism...

And lo, it came to pass that Little Timbo released his epic - straight to DVD in that august outlet, Walmart... Says it all really.

And lo, it also came to pass that even the most avid Pendophiles could see that Little Timbo had laid a massive crock of the brown stuff.

[EvilNerfherder]

Yes, I know, DF.
This kind of baseless mud-flinging such as we have seen from that clueless burk irks me somewhat though.
I've never taken a bean from any company for my views and that kind of allegation is not only stupid and inaccurate, it is insulting.
Hines is a pillock. Officially.

[mctoddridesagain]

He's also potentially laying himself open to being sued for libel.

[Commandingtripod]

mctoddridesagain said:

commandingtripod said:

2001, hm let me see, did I even know that they were making this movie - including them having those pictures up, um - no!

A lot of us did know about it in 2001, including me, which is why so many of us were so unbelievably hacked off when that so-called film was released. In fact, I'd bet at least a fiver that the most bitter people (among whom I happily include myself) are the ones who waited longest for Little Timbo to get his rancid act together.

Brief Historical Note:

When this forum originally started up, Little Timbo had been promoting his forthcoming 'epic' for years. Some of us could see from his amateurish website and awful stills that it was a stinker in the making, but others were happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, you know, 'You can't condemn it until it's released', that sort of thing.

In fact, the arguments got very rancorous and bitter, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I was probably one of the worst offenders. The Anti-Hines Brigade just could not believe that the Pro-Hines Crowd (or Pendophiles, as I shall refer to them from now on) were prepared to give Pendragon the benefit of the doubt given the lousy rubbish Timmy was showing. The forum split in a Great Schism...

And lo, it came to pass that Little Timbo released his epic - straight to DVD in that august outlet, Walmart... Says it all really.

And lo, it also came to pass that even the most avid Pendophiles could see that Little Timbo had laid a massive crock of the brown stuff.

Oops, sorry, no offence meant to anyone here who knew before hand (Including you McTodd - wasn't having a go at you or anything).
Just stating what came out of my mind at the time - But I'll be careful keep that in check in future (I'm also kinda annoyed at myself for the way that the post came out to - wasn't what I meant to say).
Sorry if I made that sound a bit rude.

Though I will give it this - when I did first see that PP was making an adaption (Back in 2005) I did have high hopes - Which have now been dashed.
Pity.........

And back in 2001 I didn't even know that there was such a company as PP.

But that still doesn't give him any reason what so ever to go and do this.

[mctoddridesagain]

No offence taken CT! ;D I didn't realise my reply sounded like I was miffed, but no such thing was intended!

I just wanted to show why some people were, and are, so easily roused by anything concerning Pendragon, because they strung us along for years... To outsiders, or newcomers, it might seem odd, but knowing something of the background puts it in perspective.

[Commandingtripod]

Ok thanks. ;D

I don't blame you (Or anyone else) for feeling that way either.

Now Hines has come out like that............I'd be fairly unhappy too.

[EvilNerfherder]

For my part, I did tend to, if not outright support PP to the hilt, feel that Tim was overly set upon. I did find the constant sniping at PP irritating and unnecessary back in the day.
However, seeing as Tim has over time turned even on those who were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and made himself some sort of martyr to some mad and pointless cause, I rather see the AHB's point. The bloke only has himself to blame for the image we have of him.

[FALLINGSTAR]

In the beginning lot's of people gave Hines the benefit of the doubt [ including me ] and I certainly don't make any apologies for that as the simple fact is - none of us knew until much later on - that the film wasn't going to be what he was saying it was going to be. And even though I think Spielbergs version is in many ways worse than Hines film [ so much for being a Paramount shill eh! ] it was Hines who made his film sound like much more than what it turned out to be.

Why does he keep using the word shells? I thought it was shills.

[D.A.V.E]

Just in response to their comment about their widely publicised artwork from 2001 - the picture in question depicts the fighting machines destroying what looks like the Space Needle. That wasn't around in the 1800's, was it?

Secondly, The only similarity I noted, was the coal cellar scene. They do look almost the same, but apart from that, he's talking out of his arse. I've still not seen the pendragon film, and quite frankly, I cannot be bothered to give it the time of day. He thinks that this latest publicity stunt will give his film some notoriety(sp), and will make people want to watch it. Well he's wrong. He pissed on a perfectly good oppurtunity to make a decent, period based WOTW and he's obviosuly failed. The Dark Horse comic was a brilliant read, and very close to the source material.
I hope old Timbo still pops by from time to time. It's about time he realised how fed up us WOTW fans are at being taken for schmucks. Get over it! You made a crap film! Leave Dark Horse alone. They can't help it if that have talent. Get back down ya hole. Honestly..

[Lensman]

Well, I have to hand it to Hines! He's accomplished his primary goal-- to get attention. And hey, we're having a sort of dialog with him-- we're posting, and he's responding.

And I have to admit he does have one point. We *are* guilty of concentrating on the most ludicrous of his claims-- i.e., the arched doorway on a house in both his film and Dark Horse's comic indicating plagiarism. *However*, that was *his* claim-- so pointing out that at least one of his claims is ludicrous is entirely appropriate.

Here are two better points: Dark Horse portrayed both the Tripods and the Thunder Child in their previous publication, Scarlet Traces, back in 2001. Yet Timbo is claiming both depictions are plagiarism. If there *was* any plagiarism, it was by Hines, not Dark Horse!

What Hines has done is the same sort of "hit 'em with everything including the kitchen sink" tactic that anti-evolutionists use in "debates" with evolutionists, and it's also the same tactic Erich von Daniken (Chariots of the Gods) used: That is, throw enuff unsupported claims at the reader/listener and they'll be convinced that since you've created so much smoke, there *must* be a fire. Trying to refute all the points individually just plays into their hands, because it takes much longer to adequately refute the points than it does to make them, so you wind up boring the audience.

To respond more generally to Hines' claims, note that movies have a limited number of ways shots are framed when showing characters. And Dark Horse has created their comic with cinematic "camera angles," so it's inevitable there will be many similarities, considering both attempt to closely follow what Wells wrote, and he put in plenty of detail.

When two people are talking, it's common to frame them in the shot so you see only the upper halves of their bodies. And again, there are only a limited number of ways you can do that. You can show them side-by-side, or you can do an over-the-shoulder shot of one character while the other is talking. Note the shot of the Writer sitting at a table talking to his wife, which is one of Hines' claims of plagiarism, is really very dissimilar in everything *but* the fact both characters are sitting at a table (as Wells described) and it's an over-the-shoulder shot. The backgrounds are completely different, and in one it's the wife with her back to the "camera" and in the other, it's the Narrator. For Hines to claim they are just the same *except* for switching the placement of the two characters is an outright lie-- even as poor a film-maker as he is, he *must* know perfectly well that framing a shot that way is a standard technique, not an indication of copying.

Similarly, Hines claims plagiarism by showing the Narrator in the coal cellar sticking his fist/fingers into his mouth. Well, how *else* do you show someone in extreme fear who wants to scream but doesn't dare to? Really, that's the only appropriate way to do it. And similarly with the Narrator crying in despair when confronting the tripod at the end. What facial expression *do* you use to show extreme anguish and despair? There's really only one that's appropriate, isn't there? The fact that both have very similar expressions is neither coincidence nor copying. And likewise with the Narrator's reunions with the Artilleryman and with his wife. How do you dramatize the fact two people are very glad to see each other? You have them throw their arms around each other, of course! How *else* would you show this-- have one punch the other in the nose?

commandingtripod said:

Unless someone can prove me wrong, I don't believe that there ever was an image of their fighting machine (Standing up or anything close to it) on the net. I think the only thing close to it was a stomping scene in one of the trailers.

I am loathe to say that among Hines' many lies on this subject is one tiny bit of truth, but images of the upper parts of the tripods, from a CFQ article, were illegally posted to the Internet, and so far as I know can still be seen if you know where to look.

Let me hasten to reiterate, tho, that Dark Horse's depiction of the Tripods was published in Scarlet Traces back in 2001, and certainly are *not* an imitation of the Pendragon tripods.

fallingstar said:

Why does he keep using the word shells? I thought it was shills.

The correct words are "shill", "shills" and "shilling". I *did* look it up in my Merriam-Webster's before making my post yesterday. The word "shell" does not have that meaning. Just another instance of Hines' incompetence.

[mctoddridesagain]

lensman said:

As with others responding to this point, I hate to admit Hines is right about this when he's so clearly being dishonest in his overall claim, but images of the upper parts of the tripods, from a CFQ article, were illegally posted to the Internet, and so far as I know can still be seen if you know where to look.

True, but Hines hasn't made that complaint anyway - he's claiming that Dark Horse has somehow plagiarised his original designs (from the Modern Retelling Set In Seattle days) as well as the final (appalling) Meccano Chicken design. Christ knows how, as they're so dissimilar, and neither resembles the Dark Horse tripods either, apart from being tripods. We all know the vast number of designs drawn ever since Warwick Goble first put brush to paper back in 1897, damn near every permutation has been depicted, so the point he makes there is tenuous to say the least.

lensman said:

Let me hasten to reiterate, tho, that Dark Horse's depiction of the Tripods was published in Scarlet Traces back in 2001, and certainly are *not* an imitation of the Pendragon tripods.

Absolutely.

And your comparison with Creationists is spot on, Little Timbo is deploying exactly the same tactics. However, while this may be a successful, if reprehensible, tactic when indulged in on his website and aimed at the less well informed, he's stupidly got lawyers involved by choosing to take legal action against Dark Horse! The situation is now not within his control, whatever his deluded mind may think. Of course, had he not struck first, he would have left himself vulnerable to charges of libel, so the net result is probably the same...

[Lensman]

There's a lot of bitterness over Pendragon's film by many on this forum, and I think that's deserved. In fact, if I recall correctly what Rob has written, it was hearing of the Pendragon production that inspired him to set up this forum in the first place. And hearing about Pendragon's production it is what caused me to seek this forum out, some few years after it was already going.

And I was one of Pendragon's staunchest supporters back before the film was released. I thought-- and still do-- that the live-action stills posted on Pendragon's website, for instance showing a battery of cannon lined up on a ridge, serviced by men in uniform-- were a wonderful sight, and showed Hines' intentions were good. It's unfortunate he was unable to carry thru on those intentions.

Despite its overall total ineptness, there are some good things and some good shots in Hines' film. My lack of respect for him has as much or more to do with his paranoid rantings than it does with his nearly total lack of talent as a film-maker. Of course, repeatedly promising us the moon then delivering a truckload of dross didn't exactly impove my opinion of him, either.

[mctoddridesagain]

Fair enough. To be honest, I can actually watch bits of his film and enjoy them (only bits, mind, it's too painful to actually sit through much of it in one go), such as the first tripod in the rain storm (although I hate the design of the tripod, it's still nice to at least see a tripod on film/digital video; then, of course, he buggers it up with some awful day-for-night shots). After all the bitterness and rancour faded away, I had actually got to the stage of regarding him as a fairly harmless crank who'd had his day.

But this Dark Horse business has really annoyed me. At the end of the day, he's adapted someone else's story, and he's milking it for all he's worth. And now he's got the hump because someone else has adapted it (in a different medium, mark you!) and it's somehow offended his 'artistic sensibility'. This pathetic legal action of his just makes him look like a complete parasite, trying to leach off someone else's talent and make a name for himself.

[dudalb]

God, I hope a judge throws this case out at the first hearing and spares we American Taxpayers from footing the costs for Timbo's legal foolishness.
I would not be suprised it Timbo end up being sued by his lawyers for non payment of fees....

[Commandingtripod]

I hope a judge would rule in favour of Darkhorse or like you say, throw the case out.
Personally, I'd be surprised if there was any lawer who was willing to help Timbo.

[FALLINGSTAR]

So has Jeff Waynes 'alleged' attorney Damien Collier ever posted on this site?

And was he really taken to task by the head of the HG Wells society? [ I presume that's Charles ]. Can't seem to remember that.