cbnuk
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Posts: 4
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Post by cbnuk on Feb 23, 2005 0:58:40 GMT
I have been reading these boards for a while and have noticed how pathetic people have been.
I have waited for years for someone to stop being so american and make a WOTW movie that follows the book, I am really excited about this movie and will go and see it on its first showing on the first day and will buy the DVD, even though I havent seen it yet I can say I will.
Thank you to Pendragon and Mr Hines for creating this.
In addition I would like to say to all those pompus people out there who have had a go at the SFX on this movie. I AM AN ANIMATOR and I know how difficult it is to create effects like this and when you have people saying "thats not very good" it makes you want to punch them. If you think your so good why dont you make a movie of WOTW and then we can all laugh at you.
I hope to god that when I finish my animation of WOTW that those who have had a good at the movie will not see it, but everyone else is welcome to.
Thank you
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Post by dudalb on Feb 23, 2005 1:09:25 GMT
"I AM AN ANIMATOR and I know how difficult it is to create effects like this and when you have people saying "thats not very good" it makes you want to punch them." Then don't plan on a career in Animation or any of the other performing arts. Being criticised goes with the territory. When you publish a book, or put out a movie or a Music CD, you have to expect some negative criticism. I agree that good SFX is difficult. But we are supposed to excuse bad SFX because they are difficult? I think that Hines should not have released the clips he has considering the state the effects were in. They might be brilliant in the final cut, but Hines made a mistake from a marketing viewpoint in letting people see the early effects. And if those are what the final effects are like, the film is really in trouble. What is troubling me more then the effects, which might be brought up to state of the art, is the lack on information with less then 5 weeks to go to it's release date. That is no way to publicise and market a film. "Thank you to Pendragon and Mr Hines for creating this." Let's see what the film is like before we thank them.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Feb 23, 2005 1:31:50 GMT
I have been reading these boards for a while and have noticed how pathetic people have been. I have waited for years for someone to stop being so american and make a WOTW movie that follows the book, I am really excited about this movie and will go and see it on its first showing on the first day and will buy the DVD, even though I havent seen it yet I can say I will. Thank you to Pendragon and Mr Hines for creating this. In addition I would like to say to all those pompus people out there who have had a go at the SFX on this movie. I AM AN ANIMATOR and I know how difficult it is to create effects like this and when you have people saying "thats not very good" it makes you want to punch them. If you think your so good why dont you make a movie of WOTW and then we can all laugh at you. I hope to god that when I finish my animation of WOTW that those who have had a good at the movie will not see it, but everyone else is welcome to. Thank you Are you actually working on Pendragons movie cbnuk as you state in your last sentence "when I finish my animation of WOTW". ?
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Gray
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Posts: 114
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Post by Gray on Feb 23, 2005 2:16:02 GMT
I'll second that post. Cbnuk, are you working on the Pendragon movie?
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Feb 23, 2005 2:45:18 GMT
You don't have to answer that CBNUK, it does rather sound like you are working on the film but I personally, from the last line, am guessing you are working on something else. If not, would you like to tell us about what you are working on? We're always looking for news of people working on versions of our favourite story.
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Post by Gerkinman on Feb 23, 2005 3:00:03 GMT
the only reason i can think of why the animation in the trailer would be hard is because the SFX crew are incredibly under staffed, which wouldnt suprise me actually.
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Post by Gnorn on Feb 23, 2005 3:12:23 GMT
Hey Cbnuk, I think that a lot of the dissapointment came from the fact that the FX in the Chrome trailer look incredible cool, and that was the standard that was expected for WotW. Of course, we're still unknown if the WotW trailer FX will be the final thing, or some early FX put in to replace the people suffering in the water scenes.
-Gnorn
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Post by Topaz on Feb 23, 2005 3:23:51 GMT
I agree that good SFX is difficult. But we are supposed to excuse bad SFX because they are difficult? Nope. Of course, we don't know what the final effects will be like, really, as you say yourself. If I feel the effects blow in the final film, I'll be happy to acknowledge it. On the other hand, between the Chrome trailer and the Handling Machine scene, I'm suspecting we'll be more pleased than disappointed, overall. Time will tell. I think that Hines should not have released the clips he has considering the state the effects were in. They might be brilliant in the final cut, but Hines made a mistake from a marketing viewpoint in letting people see the early effects. Well, that's a very good point, considering the reaction we've seen here on the boards. On the other hand, I shudder to think of the reaction if the trailer had been delayed much longer. People were already sharpening their "the movie is a hoax" knives when it was delayed a couple of days due to the tsunami. I honestly don't know which option would've been the worst one, and Pendragon had committed to releasing a trailer. Still, the end result hasn't been a plus for them, I'm sure. Let's see what the film is like before we thank them. Fair enough. Can we also see what the film is like before we criticize it?
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Post by RustiSwordz on Feb 23, 2005 3:40:44 GMT
im a designer, not an animator but a part time conceptual artist trained in the UK film industry.
i can appreciate the frustration of trying to develop projects and doing your art. there will always be critics.
I always do my art even for clients not how they like it but how i do, simply because people hire me because they like my style.
It is frustrating i know but itss part of the terrrittory.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Feb 23, 2005 4:16:43 GMT
I know how cbnuk feels. I do illustration work and if anyone is pathetic and pompous enough to criticise my work. I don't punch em - I just force em to listen to Des O'Connor records all day.
Believe me - I can't do no wrong after that!
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Post by dudalb on Feb 23, 2005 4:54:06 GMT
" People were already sharpening their "the movie is a hoax" knives when it was delayed a couple of days due to the tsunami. " I am not a member of "the film is a hoax" club. I am a member of the "Mr. Hines has ran into a lot of problems and it is delaying the film" club. ANd am also a member of the Pendragon should level about when we can expect to see the film club, since I have never seen a film company as silent about a film 40 Days before it's release. You really need to start advertising and plugging a film at least 2 months in advance. Marketing and advertising is important to get people into the theaters, even on a Indie/Limited release basis. It is a major aspect of making a sucessful film, and Pendragon seems to have dropped the ball there.
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Gray
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Posts: 114
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Post by Gray on Feb 23, 2005 12:45:44 GMT
Here's the thing: People involved in the artistic process--and it's obvious that many people here are--know that it's important to surround themselves with encouragers, not discouragers, while creating.
And that's the shame in much of the ugly criticism that's been going on here; some board members just don't respect the process. My guess is that they just don't understand it, otherwise they'd respect it more. They believe it's their right to inflict damage on a work-in-progress. IMHO, that's not just insensitive, it's dumb.
I respect the hell out of anyone who has the courage to write or paint, sculpt or animate, etc. To "create something out of nothing more than the materials of the human spirit that didn't exist before" (--to misquote Bill Faulkner). It probably would have been better for Pendragon to protect its project more, as I suspect it's doing now. I hope so. Turn these loosers off; they just didn't get enough attention from their parents when they were children, or something. The internet allows people to show the worst sides of themselves anonymously. They'd likely show more restraint if they were speaking in public and their words had personal consequence. It's kinda like C. Jung said: "Mankind hasn't kept up morally with his technological development."
--Okay, rant over. I sound awfully academic this morning. Sorry for that.
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Post by themotile on Feb 23, 2005 13:08:56 GMT
Here's the thing: People involved in the artistic process--and it's obvious that many people here are--know that it's important to surround themselves with encouragers, not discouragers, while creating. And that's the shame in much of the ugly criticism that's been going on here; some board members just don't respect the process. My guess is that they just don't understand it, otherwise they'd respect it more. They believe it's their right to inflict damage on a work-in-progress. IMHO, that's not just insensitive, it's dumb. I respect the hell out of anyone who has the courage to write or paint, sculpt or animate, etc. To "create something out of nothing more than the materials of the human spirit" (--with apologies to Bill Faulkner). It probably would have been better for Pendragon to protect its project more, as I suspect it's doing now. I hope so. Turn these loosers off; they just didn't get enough attention from their parents when they were children, or something. The internet allows people to show the worst sides of themselves anonymously. They'd likely show more restraint if they were speaking in public and their words had personal consequence. It's kinda like C. Jung said: "Mankind hasn't kept up morally with his technological development." --Okay, rant over. I sound awfully academic this morning. Sorry for that. No your fine there gray, you didnt sound academic at all. These people are making a movie. It may be seen by tens if not hundreds of people, (thats called humour before anyone pms the mod ) Seriously it was supposed to be seen by enough people to recoup to $43/$28 million, do you think any of them would sit through what we have seen so far and give positive encouragment? Its called the REAL world gray and it aint nice. These guys need the truth if the film is be anything more than a flop on any format, im not about to say well done to any one who worked on the Big Ben scene or cheers the guy who designed the 'heat ray' effect, no way, I say get your act together, its an unforgiving industry your in now where your only rememberd for the last good thing you did. There is no romance in this industry and to be called 'dumb' for knowing this is frankly insulting. People only deserve a pat on the back when they have done something good, the only person a applaud for drawing crap pictures is my two year old daughter but I have no such duty to Pendragon. The possitive encouragement was there before the trailer releases as it should have been, that was its place.
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Gray
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Post by Gray on Feb 23, 2005 14:40:12 GMT
I apologize Mot. Didn't mean to insult. Now that I re-read it I see it's over-the-top. You know what it's like to bang-out a post and reconsider it later. And I've always agreed with you, Hines is responisble for some of this because his regular exaggeration built a sense of expectation that he just couldn't meet. But I don't hold it against him; I'm sure he'd have done it differently if he'd anticipated these results. It's cool to be a small outfit, and it's cool to have effects that aren't industry standard in a small film (suspension of disbelief, and all that. I didn't have a problem with Big Ben and never understood what all the fuss was about), as long as you give it your best shot, and I think he is. I respect Pendragon for that. And I've always thought that you reacted as passionately as you do not out of meanspiritedness, but because you care so much about the story. And I respect that, too. I guess that's why we're all here. That, and to goof-off at work, of course.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Feb 23, 2005 15:14:28 GMT
Look at it this way, Hines has been pushed into a corner (for a better word), plagued to release footage or pictures of which he has crumbled and done so without thinking of the consequences. What would have happened if he had not released the images or the 'put together' trailor as I still believe that the trailor is yet to be seen as is not what is already availible. . . I bet we would have been complaining about that yet again.
Our gripes over Hines & Pendragon is the way the film and press releases have been handled, most of which is left to be desired, with contradictions trown in for good measures. But maybe one day (I say may be loosely) we will get a satisfactory explanation.
As far as a release date for the 30th March, nah not a dog in hells chance. And if its is correct and this film is released on that date, where?, some remote village that has a total occupation of 15 people somewhere in the middle of the Scottish Highlands.
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Post by themotile on Feb 23, 2005 15:33:48 GMT
That, and to goof-off at work, of course. Your spot on there gray! We also have to rememeber that its not all Hines's fault either although being the capatain of that particular ship he will have to accept that most crytisism will be in his name, hes not alone on this venture, the team has to pull together and if the elements didnt come together in the end its not entirely his fault, all apart from the exagerated promises he made which affected me and others more deeply than he perhaps realised they would. Big Ben is one of those things that would have been accepted had it been expected, i for one didnt expect it so it had more of a shock effect. im sure they have already fixed/finished it to meet minimum standards.
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SEAN
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Posts: 146
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Post by SEAN on Feb 23, 2005 16:56:11 GMT
Hi Cbnuk. I have to say that like youself, I think that some of the stuff that gets chucked about on these threads is crazy, and at times pretty out of order. It seems that some people always want to have the last say in an argument, and it ends up being a bit like a ruck in a school playground. I am very nervous and anxious re. Mr Hines version. I really hope he has pulled this off and is chuckling to himself as he reads these threads and sees some of the crap being posted. But, you have to admit that he has left himself as an easy target, not so much regarding the quality of the effects, but more so in the area regarding info. He always stated this will be a fan’s film as he like himself is a fan too. (Guess you already knew that though!). I know we don’t have a god given right to be let into all the info re. this film. But I feel like pretty much everyone else here, rather in limbo with the whole project. As we are coming towards the end of the month I think that by this time next week nearly 100% of the forum members will have def made their mind up regarding Mr Hines project, and I hope in a really positive way. I don’t think I am the only forum member who soon as he gets in from work, dashes upstairs to the computer, logs onto the net and then is disappointed at the lack of info. Anyway, hope life is treating everyone well at the moment and sorry for waffling!!
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alabaster
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Watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's...
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Post by alabaster on Feb 23, 2005 16:59:37 GMT
My "Bad feelings" about the film date from the first teaser, which contained no FX whatsoever, but some of the worst acting and most pointless dialogue I've ever seen assembled. I mean I know there isn't a lot of dialogue in WotW, but honestly, of all the great lines we could have heard;
"This never was a war, any more than there can be a war between men and ants,"
"What has happened?" "What hasn't? They wiped us out, they simply wiped us out,"
even, "ulla ulla ulla," we get
"It's you! The man from Woking!"
How is that supposed to tell us about an alien invasion? To say nothing of the fact that the guy delivering that line had about as much conviction as a man in a commercial saying, "Are you serious? Only 30 calories?"
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Post by themotile on Feb 23, 2005 18:04:52 GMT
My "Bad feelings" about the film date from the first teaser, which contained no FX whatsoever, but some of the worst acting and most pointless dialogue I've ever seen assembled. I mean I know there isn't a lot of dialogue in WotW, but honestly, of all the great lines we could have heard; "This never was a war, any more than there can be a war between men and ants," "What has happened?" "What hasn't? They wiped us out, they simply wiped us out," even, "ulla ulla ulla," we get "It's you! The man from Woking!" How is that supposed to tell us about an alien invasion? To say nothing of the fact that the guy delivering that line had about as much conviction as a man in a commercial saying, "Are you serious? Only 30 calories?" That is EXACTLY when my perceptions of this film began to take a negative route. I have just finished re reading the book (its getting up to 30 odd times now) and you know what happened? I have actualy been invigorated to see this movie, seriously I actualy want to see this movie in any form out if interest and a spooky desire to see the book come to life crap CG or not. So come on Tim, get your teams arse into gear and get this film out!
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Post by RossH on Feb 23, 2005 18:13:39 GMT
Here's the thing: People involved in the artistic process--and it's obvious that many people here are--know that it's important to surround themselves with encouragers, not discouragers, while creating. It's also important to be surrounded by practical and honest people. Constructive but honest critisism is very very important. However, it's also important to know that most things never quite turn out as good as you would hope and that compromise sometimes is neccessary. Having said that, you have to bite the bullet sometimes and declare that something is just not acceptable quality whatever the reason. I've worked with artists that have skills way in advance of mine, but they do not possess the self-critical skill to censor themselves and so the quality of their art can be variable. There's also a tendancy for some artists to think of themselves as more than they really are, to subdue their own ego for the good of the team- a tradesman on a group project. The flipside of this is that EVERYONE has an opinion about art; in fact EVERYONE has an opinion on what they cannot do- especially if changes they suggest will not affect their own workload. It's hard enough as an artist being directed by another artist with a strong 'vision', but to be directed by a non- artist... shudder. I think a lot of the criticism on this site has been valid, and a lot has not. We have to realise that this will be Hines vision of the book, and we should judge it on that level (not what WE would have done in his shoes). And while I'm dying to see more WOTW stuff from Pendragon, I can't say we particularly deserve any special treatment after some of the vitriolic comments on this board. I mean, the worst that happens is that Hines produces a not-so-good movie. A shame perhaps, but c'mon it's not a big loss to us. We're not the ones who've spent 4 years working on it so why take it so personally. You wanna bitch about a WOTW adaption- then complain about the Spielberg/Cruise version (which sounds more and more like an original story that's stolen the best bits of WOTW than a modernization of the novel). Of how about the Jeff Wayne musical version- WOTW a musical! * Will we have singing and dancing tripods? C'mon!!! * Jeff Wayne's musical WOTW is one of my favourite albums, and the CGI tests look great, but I'm not seeing any complaints about how he deviates from the novel anywhere. Why? Because it's the Jeff Wayne version of WOTW, just and Pendragons is Timothy Hines's version.
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