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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 5:32:10 GMT
>>>> Warning - AIR-CASTLE THEORY 'A COMIN' - Warning <<<<< Just a thought or two on the trailer, since that seems to be on our minds a lot. I think even the most diehard Pendragon supporters - and I guess I'm probably one of them - have to admit that the trailer was... Well, let's be charitable and say it wasn't up to the usual standards we get from other, larger studios. I suspect that's ONE thing we all can agree upon. Thing of it is, Pendragon probably knows it, too. Look at the Chrome trailer. Generally pretty slick, if you ask me, and much better than that for TWOTW. It's the same studio. I see no logic in the fact that they can do a good job on one and not the other. I keep trying to reconcile those two presentations. Why is one so (relatively) good and the other so... well, poor, not to put too fine a point on it. Now, I know some of you believe that Pendragon is either in over their heads on this one, or that somehow the production is in trouble. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I haven't any better evidence to say you're wrong that I believe you have evidence to say you're right. We just don't know. But please entertain some passing thoughts objectively. Looking back, I wonder if perhaps almost all of the finished CGI at the time the trailer was ready was of the Weybridge and Shepperton chapter. It's bound to be very CGI intensive and something you'd want to get out of the way. Hines said that they had to cut out scenes of terrified people in the water, and that would certainly be section of the book he's talking about. I'm willing to 'buy' that they'd delete those scenes from the trailer because the tsunami disaster happened just a couple of days before. The world is just so blasted sensitive these days! If that's all they had finished, then what's left? A nonsense scene of some woman singing and some unfinished effects scenes. He'd promised effects scenes, and if that's all they had available - and politically correct - at the moment, what else would they have done? Let's face it, the trailer looks like something cobbled together out of available live footage and pre-vis CGI. Maybe that's exactly what it is, for the reasons I've guessed at above. I just wonder if perhaps they got themselves into a corner promising an effects-laden trailer on a certain date, only to have the effects they hoped to use rendered un-usable by the events of the day. Lord knows everyone would've freaked out if they hadn't delivered anything on the appointed date. Honestly, I don't intend for this to be an excuse. I'm not trying to demonstrate that 'everything's okay over at Pendragon' with this theory. It just makes no sense to me that they can do something like the Chrome trailer and then not be able to do something equivalent with TWOTW. No sense at all. Without delving into whether or not the movie is going to make the release date (Please?), does anyone else have any idea that can reconcile these two trailers? I'm at a loss.
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Post by quaderni on Feb 16, 2005 5:47:40 GMT
Very thoughtful commentary there, Topaz.
Like you, I have no clue how to reconcile the evidence we have in front of us. But I suspect your foot-work on this matter is close to the mark, for whatever that's worth!
I'm assuming that Pendragon is racing through the last stages of production. At this stage, finishing the film is probably more important than web updates. Isn't Hines doing the editing himself? My goodness. Given they have so few personnel, this might explain the state of things.
I wish they could offer more. Though incomplete, though, some things look quite good indeed. I look forward to seeing the film, however it turns out.
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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 6:09:04 GMT
I'm assuming that Pendragon is racing through the last stages of production. At this stage, finishing the film is probably more important than web updates. Isn't Hines doing the editing himself? My goodness. Given they have so few personnel, this might explain the state of things. Yes, I've been operating under that assumption myself. It seems logical, but then I'll agree with the nay-sayers that I have nothing to back up that possibly rose-lensed theory. On the other hand, there's no objective evidence for any trouble, either. March 30th is going to be a very long day! Given the magnitude of what they're trying to accomplish, I suspect that the trailer and the web site are far, far, from their minds right now. The printing and prepress industry where I operate frequently functions in the same mode, with the frantic rush of all-nighters at the end of a really big project. Hope they have a Starbuck's nearby! ;D (And thanks for the compliment!)
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syrtismajor
Full Member
Heat rays are for wimps, all hail the egg whisk!
Posts: 87
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Post by syrtismajor on Feb 16, 2005 11:01:48 GMT
I was under almost the same impression, the fact that it is such a small operation that the people are more involved with actually finishing the film rather than worry about the website. We all know that Pendragon is not a large studio and probably functions more like a student film production! I have a habit of offering to do model painting work for friends of mine and always cut it close to the deadline of when I promised to have it done by. When doing this I fail to keep my paying friends updated of how far I have gotten often making them worried and agitated. I'm more worried about actually getting it done rather than keeping them updated about every paintstroke. I know it's a strange example but is the one I keep telling myself to try and explain why Pendragon are being so tight lipped and releasing what appears to be unfinished shots. I'm painting a r/c car body at the moment and the only time the owner of it has seen it is when it was only painted in grey primer! - Just to prove I was actually doing it and not spending my fee on a DVD! Thinking about it, I better get on with it now, he wants it for Thursday
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Post by Gerkinman on Feb 16, 2005 11:21:12 GMT
i havent seen the chrome trailer yet *as im on dial up* but from what i hear it doesnt look too bad. im guessing its the small staff thing aswell, i run a one man animation studio, so everything takes alot longer then it would if i had for or 5 people. but remember more people isnt always a blessing, it an create things like argument, and due to individual peoples ways of achieving goals, the end results dont always go together aswell as they should.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Feb 16, 2005 11:32:32 GMT
I have seen the 'CHROME' trailor and I must admit it is good, though you can't make out the story from just a very moments of trailor. I agree, Pendragon have a few problems that have arisen which hopefully they are sorting out, but sadly forgot about the rest of the world and its constent reminder of 'how's the WOTW film coming along?'
H_C
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Post by theheatray on Feb 16, 2005 14:06:24 GMT
Hi Guys,
I have been looking on the net and I have come the conclusion that another effects house did the chrome trailer, they also did some animations for the modern war of the worlds. After the humptydumpty goings on with Paramount and then 9/11 when the project was changed to authentic mode the original effects house and Pendragon parted company. It was the effects house responsible for startrek enterprise.
You can tell from the chrome trailer that Mr Hines again did the editing himself as he has no concept of plot and narrative, but the quality and look of the CGI are quite different.
I conclude that the effects are now in house and they are struggling with the workload.
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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 16:42:06 GMT
Hi Guys, ... You can tell from the chrome trailer that Mr Hines again did the editing himself as he has no concept of plot and narrative, but the quality and look of the CGI are quite different. I conclude that the effects are now in house and they are struggling with the workload. Well, I won't dispute your ultimate conclusion, having no evidence one way or the other. But that first line I've quoted. "... He has no concept of plot and narrative..." You can tell that from a trailer? Seems a bit of a stretch, to me.
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Post by theheatray on Feb 16, 2005 17:25:29 GMT
Hi Topaz,
Ahh right, I see your point, allow me to clarify that a bit more, I believe Mr Hines has stated he has done all the editing himself, if thats true he then is responsible for all the trailers seen thus far. All of those trailers lack a basic narrative and structure that gives the uninitiated an idea of the plot, unless you read the synopsis you wouldnt realy be able to tell what chromes was about, the same goes for the war of the world trailer, the stock footage of world war 1 and 2 helps but some of that footage is confusing. I then arrive at the conclusion that Mr Hines has his own directing style and lacks any idea of the standard form of editing and narrative. If he does then he has decided not to use that knowledge.
Its just my observasion based on precious little information which is quirky at best so I am always open to the ideas of others. What would your thoughts be?
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Post by themotile on Feb 16, 2005 17:37:31 GMT
The Chrome trailer looked heaps better than the WOTW trailer but it still isnt out yet despite a 2003 release date, I cant see how PP will meet any deadline this year never mind march, I think they blew their cash on Chrome hoping for the Chrome revenue at the cinemas but it was never picked up by a distributer so that left PP stuck in limbo as far as WOTW went.
They have already said they used all the old sets and props from the PP first version for Chrome, why not the budget too?
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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 17:50:13 GMT
The Chrome trailer looked heaps better than the WOTW trailer but it still isnt out yet despite a 2003 release date, I cant see how PP will meet any deadline this year never mind march, I think they blew their cash on Chrome hoping for the Chrome revenue at the cinemas but it was never picked up by a distributer so that left PP stuck in limbo as far as WOTW went. They have already said they used all the old sets and props from the PP first version for Chrome, why not the budget too? From what they're saying, they put Chrome on hold to do TWOTW, expecting the latter to bring in more revenue than Chrome, as it comes with a built-in fan base. So, I think it's more the other way 'round.
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Post by themotile on Feb 16, 2005 17:53:39 GMT
Why didnt they make WOTW first and so taking advantage of the built in fanbase earlier on, in doing so they would have a larger fanbase for Chrome.
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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 18:02:13 GMT
Hi Topaz, Ahh right, I see your point, allow me to clarify that a bit more, I believe Mr Hines has stated he has done all the editing himself, if thats true he then is responsible for all the trailers seen thus far. All of those trailers lack a basic narrative and structure that gives the uninitiated an idea of the plot, unless you read the synopsis you wouldnt realy be able to tell what chromes was about, the same goes for the war of the world trailer, the stock footage of world war 1 and 2 helps but some of that footage is confusing. I then arrive at the conclusion that Mr Hines has his own directing style and lacks any idea of the standard form of editing and narrative. If he does then he has decided not to use that knowledge. Its just my observasion based on precious little information which is quirky at best so I am always open to the ideas of others. What would your thoughts be? Well, I can't argue with what you're saying about the... lack of storyline(?) in the trailers. Particularly in TWOTW, although I suppose a much larger proportion of the public will already know the basics and so it's less important to make it obvious in that one. Chrome... Well, I just don't know. Anything I could say here would be utter speculation, and while that hasn't stopped me before (;D) I really don't know what to say in this case. They seemed to be going for a simple presentation of the atmosphere or mood of the movie through a visual montage - rather like the (really cool looking) preview for the Jim Henson 'MirrorMask' movie someone posted about elsewhere. The lack of information is killer, although I fall firmly into the camp that says the level of info we've gotten so far is 'normal', as we would from any other film.
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Post by Topaz on Feb 16, 2005 18:02:58 GMT
Why didnt they make WOTW first and so taking advantage of the built in fanbase earlier on, in doing so they would have a larger fanbase for Chrome. Really bad planning? ;D
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Post by themotile on Feb 16, 2005 18:13:49 GMT
Fair enough.
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Post by maniacs on Feb 16, 2005 19:36:08 GMT
After all the 'constructive critisicm' Tim Hines has had on these forums, the two up and coming trailers are going to be very interesting.
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Post by theheatray on Feb 16, 2005 20:58:12 GMT
Wow two?! When are they out maniacs?
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Post by Gnorn on Feb 16, 2005 22:41:15 GMT
Late February, early March.
-Gnorn
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Post by theheatray on Feb 16, 2005 23:17:44 GMT
Does that mean it is going to be a cinema release then? Thats a relief.
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Post by Gnorn on Feb 16, 2005 23:25:55 GMT
Mr. Hines has always stated it will be a cinema release. Coming to theatres 30 March 2005.
Also, next month the trailers will be on television. I don't know what countries (I guess the US) or what stations.
-Gnorn
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