Thunderchild design

[syrtismajor]

Ok, since Wells' descriptions of the Thunderchild don't match any ship that actually existed (there is loads about this in threads in the 'original novel' and 'PP film' sections), I thought I'd have a go and try to design a ship that would fit the descriptions.
Since the only 'real' torpedo ram was the HMS Polyphemus, I used it as a guide to create a more heavily armed, two stack warship that just might have been the next step in the design of the torpedo ram. Now a naval architect I am not, but here is a quick sketch = (Click for large)

You will see Polyphemus there, with 6" guns and 12pdr cannons, machine gun turrets and a TBD style bow (I couldn't be bothered to draw in torpedo tubes but lets assume they are there ;D). I think this fits all descriptions and doesn't show anything out of the realms of possibilities for the late 1800's - early 1900's.
Opinions anyone? I'm tempted to draw up proper plans but would love to know what everybody here thinks first.

[McTodd]

Nice for a first draft, but you need to make her look a little less 1900s and more 1880s.

The 6" guns are a good idea, but you've put them in twin turrets, as far as I can make out, and that's a 1920s feature (never mind 1900 or 1890). They need to be single mountings protected by open-backed shields. This is your classic Elswick 6" mounting: www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/7155/els6.jpg

The funnels could probably do with being taller and slimmer, have a look at this cruiser for ideas, and lose the turtleback foredeck, that's a TBD feature: www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/7155/blak.jpg I would retain a slightly raised forecastle, though.

Polyphemus had a very interesting hull form, cigar-like with an armoured deck, and then a more conventional hull casing built atop, rather like early 20th century submarines. Have a look at these photos, the one of her in the Malta dock is particularly instructive: www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_polyphemus.htm
This photo of a model of Polyphemus at the National Maritime Museum may also be useful: www.nmm.ac.uk/searchbin/searchs.pl?exhibit=it0059e&axis=1108566208&flash=true&dev=

I hope I don't sound negative because it's a good start and I look forward to seeing any modifications you may make!

Interestingly, at a time when the rest of the navy sported the black-white-buff colour scheme which was only changed to grey in 1902, Polyphemus was grey from the start.

[syrtismajor]

Cheers for the pic of the 6incher!
Ships did have twin turrets before 1900, but only with 10" guns and above.

www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Battleships/1895_Majestic_class/Drawings/Majestic_JFS.gif
(Above link shows the turrets on the pre-dreadnaught HMS Majestic launched in 1895)

Most large calibre guns at that point were generaly housed, but an open cannon may look more the part. The main reason I housed them was to make it look more 'turn of the century' adding modern elements to the design. Or I could just up the calibre to 8" or 10"
All the other pics you linked I actually used for the pic! The hull is considerably hard to draw from one 2d perspective which why it doesn't look much like the one in the pic. I also imagined it being slightly 'flatter' on the sides since it would be a larger ship (more like the early cruisers). The next sketch will show an above view that will show the unique hull shape. The Ployphemus upper structure was also wooden, I imagine a more heavily armed version wouldn't follow that route (also explaining why I didn't follow the hull and structure shape exactly).
I also agree with you with the funnels, but the funnel on the Polyphemus was also quite short. If they're too tall it may take away from the sleek lines seen in the original.
Cheers for the advice though!

[McTodd]

Sorry, my comment earlier about twin turrets only applied to 6 inch and smaller, of course heavier guns were mounted in turrets, and also barbettes (an open-topped turntable inside an armoured tower, these supplanted the old cylindrical turrets, and eventually evolved into more sophisticated turrets themselves once shields and armoured hoods were added).

These pages are very useful for late 19th century RN naval guns:

Products of the Elswick factory:
www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/elswick.htm
In action:
www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/manning_the_guns.htm

Note the 67 ton guns (they would be 13.5" jobs) in an open barbette, circa 1892.

I see what you mean about trying to convey the shape of the hull in a 2D sketch.

Anyhoo, good luck!

[syrtismajor]

Right, Design number two!
Did away with the TBD deck, and made the funnels slimmer and slightly taller. Now has an overhead view as well to give a better impression of hull shape. Overall I think this does have a more 1900 look. Still is only a ruff A4 sketch so I apologise for the low quality of it. And one day I might be able to get the shape of the turrets right Please also ignore the facts that the prop shafts are too high and the superstructure is too tall

I'll leave it while and hopefully some replys will appear!

[McTodd]

Now that is more like it!

Just replace the twin turrets (far too 'heavy gun' battleship-like) with the single open shield gun mountings and you're pretty much there.

I actually think that this ship, HMS Spanker (ooh er, matron!) would fit the bill - pinch some features from her: www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/7155/spa.jpg Actually, she has a fairly prominent turtleback foredeck, so you may want to incorporate that, it'll make your 'Thunder Child' more distinctive (similar to your Mk 1 drawing).

Or you may want to give her the superb 9.2" gun, as modelled here by HMS Powerful, a cracking (but f*cking huge) protected cruiser: www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Cruisers/ACR_1897_Powerful_class/Powerful_08.jpg Single mounts, open shields (later 9.2" guns were fitted in closed turrets, but that's from around 1900 on).

Here's a photo of her sister, HMS Terrible, showing off the fore gun mount - it looks like a turret, but is actually open at the back (an early 'hooded barbette', which bridged the gap between the old cylindrical turrets and open barbettes and the later flatter, facetted, turrets): www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Cruisers/ACR_1897_Powerful_class/Terrible_03.jpg

The 9.2" gun was a damn fine weapon, a good halfway house between the 6" QF and the heavy 12".

EDIT: Bol*locks, I've just noticed you changed them to 10" guns, hence the turrets. However, I'd keep to 6" or 9.2" guns in single, open mounts, for various reasons. First, the 10" was a bit of an oddity in the RN; three second class battleships in the 1890s carried it, plus a few were installed in the sisters Devastation and Thunderer (very old turret ships of 1870 vintage) when they were overhauled in the mid-1890s, and the sisters Victoria (of sinking fame) and Sans Pareil carried a single gun each as secondary armament. Other than that, the 9.2" reigned supreme (yes, HMS Swiftsure and Triumph of 1904 carried the 10" too, but they were being built privately for Russia, and were only acquired by the RN to stop them being used against the Japanese, Britain's allies - otherwise, we wouldn't have touched them with a shi*tty stick).

Also, by the time you enlarge a putative improved Polyphemus to carry a 10" gun, especially 4 in twin turrets, you may as well be done with it and create a battleship. You want something unique and unusual, but not so unusual that the RN would never have considered it. I think 6" is best, maybe 9.2", but definitely in single open mounts.