Album differences of new CD version - Atrocious.

[schmokes]

Well I just cannot believe that Jeff Wayne pulled a George Lucas, and has foolishly altered the music itself, much to its detriment.

Granted, I do not have an SACD surround sound system so I can appreciate that it probably sounds cool in surround sound.

But the actual CD layer of the new hybrid version has me completely appalled. I assume that the SACD layer is the same mixing and editing as the CD layer, but in higher clarity/resolution.

First of all, the music itself is so highly compressed and over-normalized that much of the wonderful keyboard work which contributes greately to the overall ambiance of the album has been drowned in the mix, or simply edited out, or replaced with over-computerized sounding effects, or other musical elements and arrangements that were not present before. As in, before the world-famous multi-million selling incarnation was marred with the harsh computerization indicatave of the record industry today.

The actual mixing of the album has completely distorted the balance of musical aspects to one another, so much so that the feel of the album has been sonically hardened. It has stripped the album of the ambiance that give it life. All to make the volume level louder. Some parts of the album have been completely altered, making them sound like part of a rediculous cartoon instead of a monumental musical epic - they retain none of the feel of the album the way it was intended to be. All of the album has been so over-normalized, there is a much weaker sense of musical differentiation throughout.

Jeff Wayne has succumbed to the false allure of a high-tech over- production instead of simply using the technology available today to RESTORE the album, in higher clarity, to its maximum sonic potential, and even separate the tracks for surround sound. Instead he has allowed new-age producers to use their computerized fake-sounding effects, stereo compression, normalization, hard limiting, and other ear-wrecking processes, all of which have marred his master-stroke of genius.

On the other hand, the import 20-Bit remastered edition of the album is fantastic, as it maintains the integrity of the album while providing the additional clarity of newer mastering processes.

Plus, even the album's packaging has been abriged - has anyone else noticed how cropped the paintings are? WHY?
Oh, because the average consumer wants to see a full page picture, regardless if it is the full painting. As an artist I find this practice particularly offensive, for my work to be abriged in this way would not be tolerated.

Even the typeface and design of the text inside the album is not the same.

Basically, if you make a masterpiece of art, that sells millions and makes you famous, you had better preserve and maintain it, certainly not change and distort it!

[krys666]

What!?!?!? It is different! I'm not buying it then! I'll keep my old cd thankyou very much!

[jeffwaynefan]

The album is NOT a 21st century "clean up " job, it's a completely NEW remix of an entire recording from the original source. The NEW version contains recordings not heard at all in the first issue of the album (1978), you can clearly hear this in the opening track of The Eve Of The War where orchestral arrangements appear that were not on the original release version. Another that springs to mind are the synth solo's during the battle in The Artilleryman And The Fighting Machine, you honestly think that the 1978 version is clearer and better? - because it's not. The Harpsicord and synths throughout the album in this new mix sound superb, better than the 1978 - both in the stereo mix and SACD - TAM&TFM along with TEOTW prove this, and just listen to the richness of the synth during The Red Weed - blissful.

If I were to pick a fault with the new mix of the album then its this one - narration from Parson Nathanial during The Spirit Of Man has been edited wrongly, with a crucial second cut making his narration sound far too shorted and odd to the ears.

With regards to the artwork, well the Thunder Child painting is one of the most recognised images in the new artwork that has been retouched using computors. Take a look at the dock building on the right of the image. Only because this painting has been countlessly copied and scanned that it is no longer the fine work of art that it was back in 1978. As for the text, why should that be the same typeface as it was back in 1978 - welcome to the 21st century.

[krys666]

So did Schmokes think UlladubUlla was the original album? Or was he talking about the extras disc on the SE? With the new content ect?...

[jeffwaynefan]

I take it he is reffering to the 2 disc digipak.

[EvilNerfherder]

A bit harsh, I think, Schmokes.. but you are entitled to your opinion.
I don't profess to know much (if anything) about 'over-normalizing', 'hard limiting' or 'differentiation' but I like the new mix... I find it fresh and exciting. I don't really care too much about the technical aspects, I just love music for what it is. I love the 'original' album, too, and it's great to be able to choose between them.

[krys666]

So is it different?!?!!? Holy Freeholays! lol ;D

I'm not too sure i want it now then. I want it EXACLY the same just beefed up with the wuality, but the quality on my cd is perfect so I would be happy with just a re-releace becasue my cd is knackared!

[EvilNerfherder]

No it isnt 'EXACLY' the same, Krys, otherwise this thread wouldn't be in existence.
Read what Horsell said when he described it.

[krys666]

Well then sorry but I think Jeff has lost a customer for this product. But it's not like he cares about one person! lol

[jeffwaynefan]

. . . and its not like we are bothered either, as we have bought it and like it.

[jeffwaynefan]

The easiest and best way to describe the album (from my own personal point of view) is the new SACD / Stereo Mix version is like the album is new, look at it as if the 1978 album never exsisted. The new version is of how we would put an album of that style together 'today' with 'todays' technology. If they album was produced to such greatness back in 1978 to cause this much feedback, and along with the SACD version of today, imagine what it would cause in another 20+ years.

[krys666]

Yeah but I want the original!!!

[schmokes]

First of all, I DON'T think the album sounded better in 1978. Like I said in my first post, after the vinyl album edition, there was the regular CD-release that came out in the 80's, which was simply digitized and dumped on CD, then there was the 20-bit remastered edition that came out in 1995, that IMPROVED its sound quality, without CHANGING the content of the album. And now in 2005 they could have further improved it, instead they decided it was time to defile a classic.

The fact that the Thunder Child painting has no doubt been scanned and copied endlessly is of little concern. I am a graphic artist capable enough of restoring a picture based on any scratches or fading to its original vivid state, so why wouldn't Jeff Wayne's camp be able to afford to get a layout designer for this new edition that is capable of the same quality I myself could have pulled off? And I was not even reffering to any image degradation, I was referring to the fact that these paintings have been cropped. The color looks great, but it's not the whole image, on any of the paintings.

The point is, it was a musical piece of artwork that became a beloved album in the state that it was , not in the grotesquely distorted state that it is currently being offered on this new format. Lets not confuse the issue and equate "how we make albums today" as if we are simply talking about the technical PRODUCTION of the album, (which by the way I have already pointed out why that in itself is also horrendously done), to the issue of maintaining the musical integrity of a world-famous album in its original incarnation.

I'm not just going to eat what I am fed by the record industry and accept the quality degradation inherent in the over-normalization present on this new format. And as far as "welcoming me to the 21st century", well maybe I dont want something that I have grown to adore tarnished by the current lack of musical innovation, and the subsequent decline of quality standards indicative of the record industry's production techniques. Yes, the music has been removed of any indication of tape hiss, and been made to sound "slick", but the value of that is instantly negated when the signal level gets so loud that it distorts, and the balance of musical elements in relation to one another is ALTERED and CHANGED, not simply cleaned up and re-issued to take advantage of newer production techniques. I have examined the wave-form of the new edition vs. the 20-bit remastered edition, side by side, and that is where I have drawn my conclusions, which are facts: this new incarnation of the album is over-produced and not even the same content.

I could delude myself all day that just because it was produced on these new systems that its a better incarnation, because, I mean, obviously, its done on computerized pro-tools workstation, and we all know thats the wave of the future. The way CDs are produced today DESTROYS audio quality, after it removes all indication that it was ever recorded with real-live instruments, not a processed recording drowned in computerized synthesized effects. It is a piece of work, lets not convolute it just because of a new generation of people that are accustomed to listening to garbage music with garbage production, and don't know any better, can have this deception pulled over thier ears. I'm not one of them, and I'm not going to be lulled into accepting an abominable distortion of a classic musical masterwork, as if it is the coolest new thing and I should eat it up like a good little ignorant drone that automatically equates new with better, without observing the obvious.

[EvilNerfherder]

'Wave forms'??
Whatever happened to just listening to music, that's what I'd like to know.
Call me old skool if you like, but it strikes me too much store is place on the technicality of music and less on how enjoyable it sounds these days.
I like the new version as it has new elements from the original masters which put a new spin on a work I've loved for 25 years or more. This changes nothing about my feelings for the original work.
I'm glad I have them both.

[schmokes]

Yes. Wave Forms.
Sound, like any other form of energy, comes in waves. When these waves are digitized and converted into ones and zeros in order to describe their frequency and amplitude, they are given a finite amount of resolution with which to be described. Whereas live sound and analogue recordings have infinite resoltion. When the sound waves are all increased in magnitude within a set limit of digital resolution, in this case 96dB, and their volume levels are all increased too high, the result is that the difference in volume between the quiet parts and the loud parts is greatly diminshed, and that frequencies which should occupy the loudest portion of a recording become greatly distorted because they have no room left to be accurately described as a digital sample when the normally quiet portions have been brought too high in relative volume.

And this is just the technicality of WHY the recording sounds so unacceptably over-produced. I listened, and I heard undeniable evidence of today's deleterious production techniques. Whether I hear the difference by listening, or I view the digital sample compression present with audio software, its all the same: brutally harsh over-normalization.

[Stuuullaaa]

WTF? I love the new 'version'!! Being able to listen to all those overdubs of drums & guitar work, that you weren't able to hear originally, & being a musician, when listening to it (especially for the first time) it took me on a slightly different journey than before - & as Nerfy says, its fresh and exciting! Schmokes, you've obviously bought it & disliked it - return it & get your money back mate.

[Commandingtripod]

Well I can't really comment much because I've never heard in the first place.
Does anyone know where I could get hold of a copy in Australia.

I guess there's only one way to find out how good it is.
And I gotta check this 'Thunderchild' art work Horsell said.

And come to think of it, what's it offically called?
Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread - it's 10:45 pm where i live and I'm tired and I'm about to go to bed.

[EvilNerfherder]

I suppose most record stores should have it.
It's called 'Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of The Worlds' like it always has been but it will say that it is an SACD hybrid. If you can spare the cash and are interested in hearing the outtakes and so on, I would get the 'Collector's Edition' of it instead. That's the 7 disc set in the big 12'' hardcover book.

[Killraven]

Well I have both a superb record player (sorry...I meant transcription unit! ) and a very good CD player, so I can enjoy both versions in the way they were recorded and amplified

KR

BTW - Krys, can you explain to me what "Wuation" means? Ta!

[jeffwaynefan]

Here's an idea - Anyone who has just recently purchased the album and does not like what they hear, use the receipt supplied with your purchase and take it back.