bobble
Junior Member
And Watching, For Pigs on the Wing
Posts: 49
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Post by bobble on Sept 20, 2006 14:27:03 GMT
May have been done before, if so apoligies...
...but what if the martain invasion happend today as in the book?
No force sheild around the FM's but as it is discribed in the book.
what chance do you think the Martains and the FM's would stand....
...very little me thinks, I think they would be obliterated in a very short space of time with modern weaponary...
what do you guys think?
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Andy120290
Full Member
The Invasion begins.
Posts: 55
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Post by Andy120290 on Sept 20, 2006 18:06:47 GMT
I agree. We could probably wipe them all out with a nuke. Although, even lesser weapronry could probably take them out pretty easily.
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Post by wotwfan48 on Sept 21, 2006 3:26:28 GMT
Have you said no more shield, if this is it, of course, they would be dead pretty fast. but in the first movie, 1953, they tried the atomic or nuclear bombs, and because of their shields, the where intact. And it would have being the same with the modern version. So with sheilds, they would win, without it, no dought, we would win. Chantale. ;D
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Post by Lensman on Sept 21, 2006 4:21:43 GMT
Good grief, a nuke would be *extreme* overkill for a vintage 1901 Tripod. Just hit it with a heat-seeking missile or two and it would be toast. Throw in a few more wire-guided missiles into the open cylinder to dispatch the rest. And once the danger was known, subsequent cylinders could be blown up with high explosive before they ever opened.
Of course this assumes our world was *not* being watched keenly and closely by the super-intelligent Martians. If they monitored our TV transmissions, they should have a pretty good idea what they were up against before they got here.
I don't think the Martians need tech as advanced as impenetrable force fields. Powerful EMP weapons should do it.
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Post by theredweed on Sept 21, 2006 12:06:34 GMT
Depends on how well the Martians had been watching, cos they may be intelliengent enough to land the cylinders near places of interest (army bases etc) and remove enough weapons and amunition that could help them get further.
Also EMP would wipe out all our communication, but there is nothing to say it will wipe out their machine, I dont think they would win, but they would not be wiped out in one stamp
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Post by Killraven on Sept 21, 2006 13:56:06 GMT
Some good points above. Remember, HG was insistent that the martians were far in advance of our civilisation...maybe even millions of years (take your average channel-flicking fast-food eating couch potato and watch his or her's legs and digestive system evolve out of existence over time ;D). The Martians only brought the technology with them that they thought was necessary to conquer the planet at its present level of development... If we'd all still been cavemen I'd doubt they'd even have bothered with bringing the heat ray Martian one: "...'Ja think we'll need the laser guidance system Gareth?" Martian two: "nah bruv...bit o' black smoke should do it...they'll think we've been making fire and run headlong into it" KR KR
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Post by mastertemplar on Sept 22, 2006 11:01:31 GMT
Well if they brought advanced EMP technology and anti-aircraft they would last a long while, but then we even have landmines and we can always just drop a big nuke nearby.
And we can always EMP them back, can't we?
And we have even the most crude weapons like Mustard Gas would have there use.
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Post by Killraven on Sept 22, 2006 12:56:52 GMT
And we can always EMP them back, can't we? Can we?? Surely that's the purpose of EMP...it defeats your enemy's capacity by knocking out electrical systems...including those that...er...generate EMPs! KR
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Post by Lensman on Sept 23, 2006 6:21:35 GMT
Well if they brought advanced EMP technology and anti-aircraft they would last a long while, but then we even have landmines True, mine fields should be effective against Tripods-- *if* you know where they're gonna be walking, or can lure them onto a certain path. I always wondered why mines weren't used more against the Tripods in Wells' original novel. and we can always just drop a big nuke nearby. How? With the airplanes or missiles which are so much junk after a powerful EMP pulse? And what do you use to locate your target? Radar is fried, too. How do the military commanders issue orders to whoever has the bombs? A courier on horseback? The phones and radios don't work, either. Presuming the Martians' machines are effectively hardened against their *own* EMP weapons, they can just keep hitting us with them again and again and again, so even something in a protected bunker, cave etc. would be fried soon after it was brought out into the open. And we can always EMP them back, can't we? Not if they knock out all our electronics *first*, we can't. And we have even the most crude weapons like Mustard Gas would have there use. Our modern tanks are, or can be, sealed against poison gas, radiation hazards, etc. I would assume that a model 2006 Martian Tripod would be constructed with this in mind, too. Remember, the Martians are *smarter* than we are.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Sept 23, 2006 10:51:45 GMT
I always wondered why mines weren't used more against the Tripods in Wells' original novel. Maybe the Martians moved too rapidly? In my own ideas, the best way to combat the Martian tripods with current tech would be hundreds of small foot patrols with Anti-Armor missiles. Unfortantly, that tactic would be almost useless when (and if) the Martians deployed black smoke. The only reason I believe that would be a good tactic is that Armored fighting units (like tanks, artillery, etc) would be fairly exposed compared with infantry who could hide out. Of course, only if there were enough Anti-Armour missiles to go around.
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Post by mctoddridesagain on Sept 23, 2006 12:51:49 GMT
I always wondered why mines weren't used more against the Tripods in Wells' original novel. Modern style landmines (that is, the kind you step on, as opposed to, say, tripwire activated jobs) weren't developed until a couple of years before the Great War. Before that, landmines were generally fairly crude affairs, usually adapted from artillery shells. Also, given how sluggish the British Army's logistics side was at that time, and how quickly the Martians over-ran south east England, I doubt they could have produced and deployed the requisite numbers.
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Post by Lensman on Sept 23, 2006 14:16:05 GMT
Modern style landmines (that is, the kind you step on, as opposed to, say, tripwire activated jobs) weren't developed until a couple of years before the Great War. Before that, landmines were generally fairly crude affairs, usually adapted from artillery shells. In Book I, Chapter 17 of Wells' novel, the Brother hears the following rumor: enormous quantities of high explosives were being prepared to be used in automatic mines across the Midland counties.Perhaps they weren't as sophisticated as modern landmines, but clearly the idea, at least, was there.
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bobble
Junior Member
And Watching, For Pigs on the Wing
Posts: 49
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Post by bobble on Sept 23, 2006 22:15:31 GMT
Some interesting point on this thread....especially what peeps are saying about the martians studying us... perhaps if they are\were studying us as it were and they see the state the planet is becoming make you wonder if they would have bothered in the first place !!... just a thought !!
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Post by mastertemplar on Sept 24, 2006 7:14:57 GMT
Just out of interest, don't we have things also hardened against EMP's?
And what exactly does the Black Smoke do? Infantry armed with full sets of Gas-Masks would be affective wouldn't they?
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Post by Slick2097 on Sept 24, 2006 8:49:41 GMT
Just out of interest, don't we have things also hardened against EMP's? And what exactly does the Black Smoke do? Infantry armed with full sets of Gas-Masks would be affective wouldn't they? Ah but you can't hit what you can't see... Also an EMP against the fighting machines would be practically useless as I think they were fully mechanical .. with the secret fuel source powering them, so no electronics. Plus all this talk of throwing nukes about is silly, when we win we'll have zero none radiated land which means we will all die anyway of starvation.. just a slow painful death, rather than a quick painful death. As long as we aim for the weakpoint (which to me would be the viewing potal) then traditional weapons would be fine .. bazooka's and traditional rockets would be enough for infantry, for the airforce sidewinders should do. I'm assuming the tripods are made from some new alloy we don't have here .. hence why its so strong and yet light enough to be catapulted across space. Thats why we need to aim for the weekpoint. Ste.
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Post by mastertemplar on Sept 24, 2006 9:51:02 GMT
I agree with nukes, though would we be throwing them about, or just using it as the last resort. Especially if we can find a point where the martians are amassing, a well timed striked could knock out half dozen of the blighters, especially if they did what they did in the book and kind of consolidate there power to a few powerhubs. The benefits would out way the consequences, and would at would hopefully have a small psychological effect on the martians as they see what we are capable of.
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Post by Stewymartian on Sept 24, 2006 11:11:34 GMT
Maybe the Martians could use their heat-ray as an anti-missile system? If they had tracking equipment in the tripod they could track and intercept incoming missiles using the heat-ray. This would render any long range attack useless. The only hope might be surprise ambush attacks launched at extremely short range (and therefore at extremely high risk) by squads of infantry using anti-tank weapons, hoping that the tripod would not have enough time to compute an effective intercept.
Land mines would be of limited use, as there is a scene in the book where a tripod has a leg damaged but is back in action within a couple of hours.
Also, although modern NBC gear would protect against the black smoke it would degrade the effectiveness of the troops forced to wear it. Soldiers in NBC gear cannot move as fast, or keep going as long as unprotected infantry, the ability to use weapons is also degraded. Respirators also need to have their filters changed when in use, it is possible that in an area saturated with black smoke that troops may only be able to function for a matter of minutes before having to withdraw. So even if the black smoke didn't cause many casualties, it could still deny an area to our forces.
We also have to remember that there is nothing in our armoury that can withstand a hit by the heat-ray. Tanks would melt instantly, concrete defences would shatter. A Tripod on the other hand, needs to be accurately hit with something substantial in order to take it out.
Maybe our biggest advantage is simply that of home ground and the incredibly stretched lines of supply suffered by the Martians .
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Post by Lensman on Sept 25, 2006 1:11:07 GMT
Just out of interest, don't we have things also hardened against EMP's? Yes, but the question is to what *degree* are they hardened against EMP? I would expect at least some modern military vehicles-- certainly armored vehicles such as tanks and armored personnel carriers-- to be designed to operate after being exposed to the EMP from an air-burst thermonuclear weapon which went off far enuff away that the vehicle should be expected to survive. But will they be hardened enuff to be immune to a weapon specifically designed to blanket a wide area-- perhaps the whole planet-- with a very powerful EMP burst? And do the Martians have "raygun" weapons that can focus an extremely powerful EMP type weapon into a continuous beam? If so, that ought to bring down any aircraft it hits, and perhaps even disable armored vehicles, depending on just how powerful it is and how well it can penetrate into the vehicle's interior. In 1901 the Martians used meteoric cylinders which crashlanded and vectored the invasion out from there. In 2006 the Martians might very well put an orbital fortress or three in place around Earth, and rain down destruction and focused EMP bursts or beams from orbit. That's the modern version of having "the high ground" in a battle. If my understanding is correct, with a powerful EMP burst even the electronic ignition system in your car will fail to function, so even if your car is running it will die. Perhaps Hummvees and other modern light military vehicles are resistant to that, but even if they are, radio and radar would still be rendered useless. If communications are limited to courier messages carried by hand, and detection is limited to visual spotting, how effective is your military gonna be? And what exactly does the Black Smoke do? Infantry armed with full sets of Gas-Masks would be affective wouldn't they? I think so. Keep in mind the Martians don't want to kill off Earth's ecosystem, they want to take it over. That means whatever they use to poison people has to have limited toxicity. The Black Smoke as described becomes inert when exposed to water. Therefore I imagine it's merely some form of poison gas. A skin-contact poison, like a nerve gas, is *much* more toxic. But I'm not a chemist nor a CBW specialist, so I could be wrong. If the Black Smoke is a skin-contact poison, that makes the Martians a much nastier foe!
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Post by mastertemplar on Oct 30, 2006 3:15:06 GMT
Just as another suggestion, what about a Blitzkrieg approach to knock out the the Tripods.
Think about it, ok you have a small block of Abrhams charging full throttle at the Tripods. No if you manage to get within the range of the heat ray and even if they are shielded you could probably run through the shield and get underneath the Tripods and fire upwards. Failing that you can always ram or have your tank loaded to the brim with C4.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Oct 30, 2006 6:15:26 GMT
No if you manage to get within the range of the heat ray and even if they are shielded you could probably run through the shield and get underneath the Tripods and fire upwards. Your plan would possibly work if the tripods failed to have shields. The problem is your tank *could* impact on the shield (Possibly because of the shells it carries?) or be picked off prior to arriving under the tank. And even if it does get under the tripod, the tripod could either move away or possibly crush it under foot.
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