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Post by beecus on Feb 10, 2006 3:55:14 GMT
Book I chapter 12
''The knees of it's foremost legs bent at the further bank, and in another moment it had raised itself to it's full height again....''
That gives us some good info, firstly the legs are jointed and also that the machine has two legs in front and one behind. There are also a few descriptions of the 'walk' where he describes two legs leaving the ground at once.
Also the hood is clearly not a fixed cockpit, but a rotating one:-
Book 1 Chapter 10
''...and the brazen hood that surmounted it moved to and fro with the inevitable suggestion of a head looking about.''
So the FM has a 'head' or 'hood' rather than a singular 'body' like the Jeff Wayne's tripods.
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Post by Lensman on Feb 11, 2006 2:04:57 GMT
Hmmm... I'm sure in a previous discussion someone said the Tripod walked like a man on crutches; that is, moving two "outside" legs together followed by the the "middle" one by itself. But searching the text of the novel I don't find the word "crutch" or "crutches" anywhere.
But that doesn't mean it HAS to walk with that 2-1-2-1 gait. I presume that's the "slow" gait; the "fast" gait is the one described in the chapter "In the Storm", that of whirling along tilted over with only one leg on the ground at a time. Altho at least one forum member thinks it does not really travel that way, that the Narrator got the wrong impression thru seeing only in flashes, lit by lightning.
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Post by Thunder Child on Feb 11, 2006 13:45:17 GMT
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Post by Moorkey on Jun 17, 2006 7:33:58 GMT
I always thought the hood, or cockpit, would be attached to the front of the machine like a ball and socket.
The legs would have a single knee, with an oleo-style lower leg, to allow for crouching and spinning.
The legs would be mounted to the body on a motorized swivel, to allow the legs to spin independently of the body.
The body itself would rsemble a medieval shield from the top, with the 'ball-socket' cockpit esembling a helmet attached to the broad end.
The underside of the shield would have strong points so the legs could bend, attaching the knees to the shield, to give a wider gait for firing the Black Smoke Cannon, and for walking/wading (where spinning would damage the legs)
The heat ray would resemble an old camera (suitably martian-ised) with a long, slender tube surmounted by a lens.
The black smoke cannon would resemble the barrel of 'Big Bertha', mounted on the machine's right shoulder.
(Fear not, will attemptt to post sketches for clarity!)
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Post by Lensman on Jun 21, 2006 4:40:40 GMT
Moorkey: It all sounds good except the Black Smoke gun, which is not attached to the tripod, but is a separate unit, passed out by one Tripod to others when needed, and held in its tentacles when fired.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 23, 2006 10:59:38 GMT
Yes.
I wonder how would they reload it? Shove another black smoke canister in the gun and fire? But who would be carrying that much ammo? A handling machine maybe.
But that's getting off track slightly.
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Post by Luperis on Jun 23, 2006 18:25:32 GMT
Yes. I wonder how would they reload it? Shove another black smoke canister in the gun and fire? But who would be carrying that much ammo? A handling machine maybe. Or maybe the black smoke is created inside the cannon by a process that allows the fusing of certain elements present in the air with substances that are toxic to humans contained inside the cannon, using a catalyst? The substance made would probably have a boiling point (the temp at which it turns into gas) at quite a low temperature, meaning it quickly changes into a gas when shot out of the canister, and if shot out at a good speed should maintain it's solid form long enough to travel to the target area. New air could be taken in through openable 'slots' that automatically open when it requires more, which would allow the weaon to be used frequently, with minimal 'reloading' required (only the toxic materials would need to be replaced, and this would not have to be done often). I'm not really good at chemistry - so don't know if this is really possible - but it was just an idea I had and sounded cool so i thought i'd share it. ;D
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Post by Thunder Child on Jun 23, 2006 22:33:34 GMT
I always assumed that the cannister launcher had a cylinder like a revolver, or something like that..
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 24, 2006 3:35:36 GMT
I see what your saying. I believe (But can't quite remember) that the Narrator states that he sees Martians firing something but doesn't hear a bang or explosion of any sort and that these are the canisters hitting the groud, breaking open and releasing the black smoke?
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Post by Moorkey on Jun 24, 2006 6:45:52 GMT
Moorkey: It all sounds good except the Black Smoke gun, which is not attached to the tripod, but is a separate unit, passed out by one Tripod to others when needed, and held in its tentacles when fired. Ah c**p! You're right! Missed that bit. Ho-hum, back to the drawing board!
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Post by Moorkey on Jun 24, 2006 6:49:54 GMT
Yes. I wonder how would they reload it? Shove another black smoke canister in the gun and fire? But who would be carrying that much ammo? A handling machine maybe. But that's getting off track slightly. I always thought the B.S cannon was rear loaded (in a very similar style to a Royal Navy Field Gun ((Awesome race to watch)) ) Also, I had an image of tripods being 'detailed off' e.g Tpod1- Gunner. Tpod2- Loader. Tpod3- Ammunition Carrier. ...with handling machines dashing back and forth resupplying pod 3.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 24, 2006 7:39:28 GMT
I always thought that the B.S Cannon was front loaded myself.
My image was this: 1. Tripod fires black smoke canister 2. Handing Machine arrives with additional black smoke canister 3. Tripod takes black smoke canister in a tentacle 4. Tripod places black smoke canister in the gun 5. Tripod fires black smoke canister at a later date.
In my image, all tripods would be fitted with a black smoke gun and that they reloaded it themselves whilst being supplied by additional Handling Machines.
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Post by Thunder Child on Jun 24, 2006 14:05:40 GMT
But the narrator would have seen the Handling Machine wouldn't he? and is a Handling Machine not a little too vulnerable on the battle field?
No, i think the B.S. launcher was some sort of air pressure based apperatus, with some sort of magazine attached to it to hold the missiles
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 25, 2006 3:42:18 GMT
Very true.
Yes even the Martians would have worked out how exposed the handling machine would have been. But who says the Narrator would have had to have seen it?
In my own thoughts, the Handling Machine would bring more black smoke canisters to the tripods after the black smoke had done it's work.
Therefore the Narrator could never well have seen the handling machine because if he was in the area he'd be dead from the black smoke. Anyway, I don't think he'd stick around to find out if a HM was coming or not.
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Post by Lensman on Jun 26, 2006 0:50:07 GMT
The Handling Machines are never shown to leave the pits or control areas of the Martians. It is a Tripod which brings the black smoke launchers and hands them out. I think it's a safe bet to say that if they need more canisters, a Tripod will go back to base and fetch them.
And yes, they certainly do fire cannisters. From I-15:
~~~~~~~~~~ Each of the Martians, standing in the great crescent I have described, had discharged, by means of the gunlike tube he carried, a huge canister over whatever hill, copse, cluster of houses, or other possible cover for guns, chanced to be in front of him. Some fired only one of these, some two--as in the case of the one we had seen; the one at Ripley is said to have discharged no fewer than five at that time. These canisters smashed on striking the ground--they did not explode--and incontinently disengaged an enormous volume of heavy, inky vapour, coiling and pour- ing upward in a huge and ebony cumulus cloud, a gaseous hill that sank and spread itself slowly over the surrounding country. And the touch of that vapour, the inhaling of its pungent wisps, was death to all that breathes. ~~~~~~~~~~
What about reloads? Common sense says either they carry a supply in/on the Tripod, which can be grabbed by a tentacle and loaded into the launcher, or (more likely) as Thunder Child said, each launcher has a magazine.
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Post by Topaz on Jun 26, 2006 14:41:44 GMT
Interesting thread.
One possibility for the Black Smoke 'gun' is that the rounds are stored within the gun itself, in one of two ways.
For one, several rounds could be stacked lengthwise in the barrel, perhaps in a protective sabot, and then each one can be fired after the previous has left the barrel before it.
The other is some sort of magazine, as has been alluded to earlier. The gun is described as a "thick black tube." We're only assuming that what was seen is the actual barrel of the gun, and therefore in diameter roughly the same as the caliber of the round. If it is much thicker than the round, then you have magazine space surrounding the actual barrel itself.
Wells, as usuall, is a bit vague on the subject.
I agree with the post a couple back - I always thought of the gun as pneumatic or similar. I never really thought of it as being an explosively-fired device, although there's nothing in the text that really points one way or another. I believe the firing is described as "a concussion that made the ground heave", but at this kind of caliber, even a pneumatic gun would do that.
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Post by mctoddridesagain on Jun 26, 2006 17:43:42 GMT
I doubt the canisters would need much propellant anyway (if we assume them to use explosive propellant, rather than pneumatics). They are launched/fired at low velocity - I'm sure there's a quote describing one such canister as tumbling end over end through the air which implies this, as well as the fact that they don't seem to fire them to a great range - perhaps a mile or so. Being fired at low velocity, the canisters only need quite thin (thus light) walls (also consistent with being able to smash upon landing), so most of the payload is the Black Smoke generator (whether a liquid or solid or whatever). Now, because I'm at work, I don't have the figures to hand, but a late 19th century naval gun that could fire an 800lb shell ten miles used something like a hundred or so pounds of propellant (such as cordite). This is clearly a much higher performance gun than the Black Smoke 'cannon', so one might assume each canister may only use the Martian equivalent of a few pounds (or a few tens of pounds at most) of Martian propellant (assuming it to be as powerful as, say, cordite). Such a quantity will take up a very small space. Something like Topaz's multiple canister/propellant combo is entirely reasonable - the propellant, packed into the base of the canister rather like the propellant of an infantry mortar, will occupy a tiny fraction of the volume of the canister.
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Post by Luperis on Jun 27, 2006 20:11:50 GMT
The Handling Machines are never shown to leave the pits or control areas of the Martians. It is a Tripod which brings the black smoke launchers and hands them out. I think it's a safe bet to say that if they need more canisters, a Tripod will go back to base and fetch them. That makes sense. Going back to base, by the martians' defenses, would be a much safer place to store supplies and reload when the magazine is empty.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 28, 2006 1:16:32 GMT
Could the black smoke gun possibly be like a magnet? And the black smoke canister is like another magnet? But they're both made out of the same metal and the black smoke gun is an elcetromagnet (I think that's right ). When the Martians switch the gun on the magnets repel each other forcing the canister out of the gun? Also there might be different power settings on the gun which let the Martians control just how quickly the canister comes out of the gun? Just a thought I've had and I don't quite know if anyone's gonna be able to fully understand what I mean because I don't quite think I typed it correctly.
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Post by Topaz on Jun 28, 2006 5:00:29 GMT
String magnets along the barrel and switch them carefully off and on so each one sequentially pushes the round down the barrel and you've got one heck of a launcher, if you've got the power on-tap.
It's basically a linear electric motor, and such launchers have been proposed by everyone from Sci-Fi writers to the NASA, often as a means of cheaply launching small payloads off the Moon. Variations have pushed prototype MagLev trains down their 'tracks' at speeds of two hundred miles an hour and more.
No reason it couldn't have worked in this case, too, although the narrative specifically mentions a heavy concussion or report as the weapon is fired. I doubt an electromagnetic launcher would make a sound like that.
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