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Post by jeffwaynefan on May 9, 2004 16:59:57 GMT
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Post by EvilNerfherder on May 9, 2004 18:16:21 GMT
Yup.I saw those (except the Dutch one) as part of the research for my short story...Of course, after the refit Thunder Child would have looked more like JW's version You could just imagine the Polyphemus' wonderful looking crew steaming straight at that second Martian in Thunder Child couldn't you?
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Post by Killraven on May 10, 2004 12:03:00 GMT
Wonderful looking crew???! ..we're back to Westlife now, aren't we ;D
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Post by EvilNerfherder on May 10, 2004 17:48:47 GMT
Westlife?? How dare you! Nothing wonderful about the popular kiddies' pocket money draining beat combo that I can see. I meant they look like the sort of grim,determined people who would've crewed Thunder Child.Just how you'd imagine the crew of a 19th Century ship.
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Post by David Faltskog on May 10, 2004 18:06:08 GMT
Shame the Thunderchild can't be converted into a steamroller...And used to flatten those god-awful singing fools.
B-B.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on May 10, 2004 18:25:51 GMT
I meant they look like the sort of grim,determined people who would've crewed Thunder Child.Just how you'd imagine the crew of a 19th Century ship. I meant the Polyphemus' crew,btw,not Westlife. ;D Actually ,how about Thunder Child steaming determinedly towards Westlife,guns blazing.What a great image! ''Westlife to port,Sir!'' ''Very good.Fire at will!''
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Post by Killraven on May 11, 2004 11:00:34 GMT
Westlife could probably destroy the martians with sonic waves by playing "Love Me For A Reason" at ear shattering volume. ...can just see it now...the invaders trapped in their machines, not comprehending what is happening to them, tentacles over their 'ear'.. "what is that awful noise?? Aaaaaagh! It's killling us!" ;D
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Post by EvilNerfherder on May 11, 2004 11:06:40 GMT
Yeah,that'll give the Overlords something to think about before the next invasion.
''The problem is,of course,the boy bands..''
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Post by RustiSwordz on May 17, 2004 0:47:56 GMT
Boyband Cover Version of Jeff Waynes Masterpiece...... Oh the horror...! LOL ;D
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Post by EvilNerfherder on May 17, 2004 9:37:25 GMT
I'm trying hard not to think about it...I got into 'Ulladubulla' but thats as farb as I'll go
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Post by Phil on Aug 23, 2004 20:29:44 GMT
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Post by McTodd on Jan 9, 2005 20:19:13 GMT
Polyphemus was a very interesting ship. As you yourself, Phil, noted elsewhere, she was (contrary to many accounts of her in books over the years) primarily a torpedo vessel, and a testbed for side-mounted underwater torpedo tubes (of which she had four, two on either beam) plus another tube in the ram (if you look closely at the photo of her in the Malta drydock, you will see the armoured cap on the tip of the ram). The ram was intended as a secondary weapon, though ramming as a tactic was advocated ever since the Monitor-Merrimac duel at Hampton Roads in 1862 and the Battle of Lissa of 1866 (all large ironclads were fitted with reinforced ram-bows - however, they invariably proved deadlier to friend than foe - a Prussian ironclad was lost to accidental ramming in the 1860s, as was a British ironclad around the same time, culminating in the infamous Victoria disaster of 1893). Interestingly, the upperworks of Polyphemus were designed to separate easily from the cigar-shaped hull and float away independently as a huge life-raft in the event of serious battle damage! The Thunderchild is clearly meant to be an improved version of Polyphemus - she carries heavier guns and has twin funnels. I imagine Wells felt her to still be sufficiently glamorous to employ her in some form, though her day was long past. To be honest, I always felt Wells to be fairly weak on points of naval tactics and technology. In The War in the Air of 1907, he still refers to battleships as 'ironclads', even though, by then, HMS Dreadnought was in service! And the sea battle in the book takes place at ludicrously close quarters (enemy battleships ram each other, and at one point an American battleship is run down by a Hamburg-Amerika line passenger vessel during the night!). Likewise with The Autocracy of Mr Parham - the British and American fleets end up fighting each other in a great sea battle which sees US superdreadnoughts running down their British counterparts (mind you, having said that, a British armoured crusier was almost run down by a German dreadnought during the night at Jutland and ended up being blasted to oblivion at pointblank range)! So I would take his description, or at least terminology, for the Thunderchild with a pinch of salt. Anyhoo, I've included the link, again, to the Polyphemus photos: www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_polyphemus.htm
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Post by maniacs on Jan 11, 2005 1:44:17 GMT
The british navy at the time of WOTW was the most powerful fighting force in the world. It was a symbol of British power and ultimatly humanities finest fighting force. As a military power Britain has never had a large army. Thus the dstruction of her land forces was no big deal.
The battle between thunderchild and the martians was the confirming factor that man was never going to beat the martians.
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Post by Phil on Jan 11, 2005 3:42:28 GMT
Many thanks for such an interesting post, McTodd, that was fascinating reading. So it seems that the Thunderchild was basically a fictional class of vessel invented by Wells.
This does beg another question, what type of warship is actually depicted by the artist on the Jeff Wayne album? Is that a Formidable Class battleship, do you think?
Many thanks.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Jan 11, 2005 17:26:08 GMT
I think most people on here would agree that Wells' Thunder Child isn't so much a fictional class of vessel but more a refitted Polyphemus (which was in a class of it's own.. a one off). Stick on some big deck guns and you have 'Thunder Child'.
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Post by McTodd on Jan 11, 2005 18:20:03 GMT
Phil, the battleship on the Jeff Wayne cover is definitely a first-class battleship (i.e. armed with 12" guns) rather than, say, the smaller second-class 'Centurion' or 'Renown' (both with 10" guns, and with, in any case, side-by-side funnels). Between the 'Majestic' class, which had side-by-side funnels, and the 'King Edward VII' class (which had large 9.2" turrets at each corner of the superstructure), there were three classes of first-class battleships: the 'Canopus' class, the 'Formidables' and the 'Duncans' (yes, what a lame name - 'HMS Duncan... Ooh, scary!'). They were all fairly similar in appearance, with differences in the armament confined to the secondary guns. The vessel in the Wayne painting appears to have three secondaries in the broadside of the superstructure between the sponsoned-out casemates at the corners: drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/wayne_cd.jpgThis most resembles a 'Canopus' class battleship: www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Battleships/1900_Canopus_class/Glory_01.jpgThe 'Formidables' had four guns between the corner casemates: www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Battleships/1901_Formidable-London_class/Bulwark_02.jpgWhilst the 'Duncans' appeared not to have any secondaries mounted in the superstructure: www.warship.get.net.pl/WBrytania/Battleships/1903_Duncan_class/Albemarle_03.jpgOn the subject of 'Polyphemus' again, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere years ago that Nathaniel Barnaby, the designer, intended a follow-up vessel, larger, faster, more heavily armed, and with two funnels. Sounds very like 'Thunder Child'... However, the torpedo ram, as a type, was doomed by the advent of the quick-firing gun. Rather than invest in small numbers of relatively large, expensive, torpedo rams like 'Polyphemus', far better to build swarms of smaller, expendable torpedo boats.
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Post by Topaz on Jan 21, 2005 9:38:16 GMT
A very interesting class of ships, almost exactly matching the Thunder Child description (right down to the twin funnels and guns) can be found at: www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/coastal_defence_ships.htmThey're actually French navy vessels, but developments of the HMS Polyphemus concept - an armored ram with more power and guns. No doubt this is what the Polyphemus would have evolved into, given interest by the RN. Eventually one might even have been called HMS Thunder Child. There's a nice couple of shots of these vessels at speed, which gives a wonderful impression of the TC approaching the Martians!
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Post by McTodd on Jan 21, 2005 10:05:22 GMT
Hate to be picky Topaz, but French warships followed their own line of development, and there was no connection between French coastal defence battleships and HMS 'Polyphemus', neither in design terms nor intended tactical usage. 'Polyphemus' really was a one-off, based on a tactical concept (and an explicitly aggressive one at that) that rapidly became outmoded by technological developments (hence no follow-on was built). However, if you look at the photos in Topaz's link you can see what I meant here... robk.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=1105987535...when I said that Alvim Correa's 'Thunder Child' is very French-looking!
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Post by Topaz on Jan 21, 2005 11:33:36 GMT
Interesting. Thanks!
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Post by TOMAHAWK on Jan 21, 2005 22:31:44 GMT
[ftp]http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/torpedo_boats.htm[/ftp]
HMM TBDS certainly look the part!!!!!
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