Martian Society

[Bayne]

[glow=red,2,300]Do you think they have a Senate of Elders as suggested in the JW game, or a communist hive mind?[/glow]

[Killraven]

Ah Bayne, I see you picked up on my hints from "that other thread which kind of went off topic so you created some new ones" ;D ;D ;D

A senate of elders is a neat idea which Wells never explored - I wonder who introduced it to the game? One of the designers, or even Jeff Wayne himself?

Some might suggest that a senate governing a largely classless system of Martian 'plebs' would also mirror the communist system quite well..

Certainly though there is no suggestion of any hierarchy within the invasion force - unless there was a command unit guiding operations from Primrose Hill, it appeared to me that the Martians had an empathic, perhaps even symbiotic relationship with each other. You certainly didn't see them squabbling and thieving from each other even when their lives were under threat, unlike their human victims.

If there was any direction from Mars they would obviously have to overcome the communication problem - high speed radio transmission for a start.

It's an amusing thought, imagining a bunch of martians in a video conference to the home planet, coffee in one tentacle, Rich Tea in another. Q: "Any other businesssssss?" A:"Honoured leader I would like to put forward a strategy to advance on the northern territories of this land the cattle call 'England'" Response: "What? We don't want to go near those scummy Brummies! Keep to London until I give you leave to do otherwise! And don't speak with your mouth full!" ;D

JJ

[David Faltskog]

Sorry to keep spouting about it but the "Space Machine" by Christopher Priest has a brilliant look at Martian Society.

Well recommended and a good excuse to wind Bayne up till he gets his grubby mitts on the book!.

Wow!...An on-topic post by B-B.

[Bayne]

[glow=red,2,300]Indeed, I'm most looking forward to that book!

One of the things most notable with high intelligence, is egotism and argument. Not to mention bitter academic politics... would the martians have risen above all that?[/glow]

[Xav]

A good post, Killraven, I enjoyed reading it and I would like to respond in kind.

Wells never drew attention to any individual Martian...indeed, he seemed to suggest that they all looked the same. Modern research shows that all higher animals are different within the same species...ie, not all Lions either look the same or behave in the same way; they are individuals.

What we do know about the Martians seems to indicate a corporate existence. Their clearly powerful minds and the strong suggestion of telepathy would indicate that long ago they submerged their individuality into an Overmind. It may be that some of the strongest characteristics of such an Overmind is to be merciless, malevolent, cruel and unsympathetic to all other forms of life. The Martians were supreme survivors and conquerors. In all of this they strongly resemble army ants, wasps and the like. They did not identify themselves in any visible way it seems as we do by clothing, or ornamentation or simply skin colour, hair or the colour of our eyes. The Martians seemed to be clones of one supreme creature in their society, such as it was.

In my opinion, the Martians in lacking those qualities that we see in the best of our people...love, tolerance, compassion, affection and the like, coupled with apparently no art, music, literature....were subhuman and had more in common with a pack of wolves than anything else. Very much a human-centered comment, I realise, but...take it or leave it.

Of course, I recognise that much of the above is rather superficial conjecture and guesswork leaving holes that you can drive a bus through...but that is simply because we actually know very little about these dreadful creatures.

Therefore, I do not think that there is a Council of Elders but simply a huge cool and dangerous corporate mind, bent on survival and little else.

[lanceradvanced]

Bayne said:

[glow=red,2,300]Do you think they have a Senate of Elders as suggested in the JW game, or a communist hive mind?[/glow]

Given Wells bent toward exposing the what he considered the evils of society, I'd almost expect them to have something like the ultimate robber barron imperialist mentality, an almost semi-fuedal society who would be at each other's throats if their intelects didn't hold them back untill it was to their best advantage...

[Lensman]

Xav said:

Modern research shows that all higher animals are different within the same species...ie, not all Lions either look the same or behave in the same way; they are individuals.

Indeed, modern research indicates there is an advantage to having a fair amount of variance in the gene pool; it makes the species as a whole better able to adapt to sudden changes in environment.

However, there are two very important differences between the Martians and "higher animals" on Earth.

1. The Martians can preferentially select members for breeding, for eugenics or "improving the race" or just because they think black eyes are prettier than blue.

2. More importantly, the Martians reproduce by budding. With this type of reproduction, the decendents are genetically identical to the parents. This means there may be a very large number of individuals which are virtually identical genetic copies of each other, like clones. In fact, if the invaders were selected for the type most fitted to survive Earthly conditions, it's quite possible that all those which landed on Earth were descended from a single parent. This would make the parallel with an ant colony even greater, as well as make them more mentally "in tune" with each other, whether or not they had telepathy.

[Charles]

The Martians have a communistic hive mentality - hence the many references to ants and bees throughout the text; all know their place and work tirelessly toward their ultimate goal - survival and propagation of the species. In this sense "Worlds" would have had a dystopic slant had Wells detailed Martian society. But that wasn't the point to "Worlds" and instead he saved the concept for the Selenites and developed further in "The First Men in the Moon."

[mabus]

I read s text a while back that gave a good background to Martian society, it said that the humanoid Martians were the dominant species thousands of years ago and their society was very peaceful and prosperous and was very creative, but the rulers of this society were puritanical in nature and decided to turn themselves into biologicaly simple creature consisting only of an all logic brain and grasping appendages (tentacles) so as to protect themselves from decadence and hedonism. These Martians of course became the rulers of Martian society and they enslaved the remaining humanoids for food and labour as they no longer felt sympathy for them, so Martian society is much like ancient Sparta, with the ruling minority of non-humanoid Martians and the majority slave class of humanoids.

[theredweed]

All societies have a leadership structure in one form or another even lions and the likes. The only animals that don't have this kind of structure as ones that have no need for it such as Zebras and birds. To plan and create an attack/invasion like they did would need some kind of leadership, so there must be some elder style martians.

[BrutalDeluxe]

I agree with Charles and not just because he knows all about H.G Wells
The text of WOTW mentions ants and bees every now and again which indicated to me that they have some kind of hive mentality. They work as parts of one large organism, in harmony with each other. They do what needs to be done to ensure their survival and have no interest in individuality or self-promotion. The text seems to hint that they may have telepathic capability to coordinate their movements which makes me wonder if there is an Overmind primarily call the shots or that the Martians are so intune to the needs of their "society" they just universally act on what needs to be done.

Yay! I just became an Uber member!

[lanceradvanced]

theredweed said:

The only animals that don't have this kind of structure as ones that have no need for it such as Zebras and birds.

I trust you've heard the term "pecking order".. and as far as I know zebra's have a typical herd stallion, lead mare, rest of the mares typical equine herd structure...

To plan and create an attack/invasion like they did would need some kind of leadership, so there must be some elder style martians.

Not nesc.. could have been done by committie and consensus, evaluating things as a group...

[Lensman]

lanceradvanced said:

I trust you've heard the term "pecking order".. and as far as I know zebra's have a typical herd stallion, lead mare, rest of the mares typical equine herd structure...

Yes indeed. There are social animals, and there are solitary or non-social animals. All herd animals are social animals, and all social animals have a pecking order. For hive insects such as ants and bees the order is very simple: The queen is at the top and everyone else is at the bottom. Social "higher animals" such as zebras and humans have a much more complex pecking order, with many subtle variations and levels.

Solitary animals have a less well-developed sense of pecking order, but for example housecats-- which are by nature solitary and therefore non-social-- will nonetheless establish a pecking order if they are forced to live together in the same household, as anyone who has lived with two or more cats can attest. Of course, cats are exposed at an early age to social living, as part of a litter before they are weaned, so it's understandable that they can adapt to forced communal living.

Now there are two big unanswered questions about how the Martian "young" are raised: One, do newly budded Martians retain the intelligence and memories of their parent? If so, they have no need for a period of parental care during childhood. And two: if young Martians require parenting, what amount of love and affection is showered on them? My guess is that young Martians do *not* have the mental abilities and memories of their parent; the description in II-2 suggests to me the "young Martian" which was found "partially budded off" was of small size, and therefore would not have had a brain large enuff to replicate its parent's learning. I also guess that the Martian young are not given love and affection by their parents; the description in II-2 suggests the Martians are "without any of the emotional substratum of the human being". Indeed, one rather suspects the Martian young are not cared for by their parents, but rather are cared for and raised in community nurseries, cared for by "nurse" workers, just as the larvae in ant colonies are cared for in nurseries and tended to by worker ants acting as "nurses".

If Martians are indeed telepathic, then we can assume the "hive mind" acts as their Queen in issuing orders, and if so they have no need for an actual individual Monarch, nor do they have any need for a "council of elders".

If, OTOH, they are not telepathic, then I would think they would resemble the Eddorians in E.E. Smith's "Lensman" series; each entirely selfish, completely ruthless, and working only for his own ends. In this case, just as the Eddorians, they would have an "inner council" or "council of elders" as someone put it. The problem here of course is that once they left Mars, how would the council's authority be maintained? It would seem they would have to send at least one of the councilors along on the expedition.

But as Charles has pointed out, there's no hint of any single entity amongst the invaders directing things. All the Martians seemed to work together for their "common good" without appearing to receive orders from a central point... again suggesting a hive mind.

Contrariwise, it is said the Tripods communicated with each other by sonic signals (sirens), which suggests they were not actually in telepathic communication at all times.

What I suggest is that when they were close enuff to each other, they linked mentally and therefore did form a "hive mind". I further suggest that this hive mentality drove out individual thought to such an extent that the Martians all thought alike even when they were not telepathically linked. Therefore there was no need for a leader to issue orders... pretty much everyone knew what everyone else would do in any circumstance because it's what *they* would do under the same circumstances. There would still be a limited need to pass along shorthand messages at a distance, using the sirens; e.g. "Attack plan B4 at grid coordinates 24-37; your assistance needed."

Karl Marx would have loved it. If this concept is correct, the Martians could have formed a true and perfect communistic state, with no need for coercion of any individual... which we poor humans cannot possibly accomplish.

[mabus]

I think that their telepathy is only short range, not powerful enough to form a hive mind. I think their organised more like the Tau in Warhammer 40K, all of them work for the common good of their race as a matter of survival rather than them being a hive mind. And also like the Tau when they encounter an alien race they are quite aggressive with it (the Tau's "join us or be destroyed" policy)