JonT
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Posts: 120
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Post by JonT on Apr 6, 2005 18:56:01 GMT
i always thought that they communicated telepathically.
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Post by Spirit of Man on Apr 10, 2005 2:59:16 GMT
I jus think they communicate with mobile phones, they're all texting each other.......the Ulla sound is when they receive a message.
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Post by Lensman on Apr 10, 2005 10:44:23 GMT
We humans use sound to communicate both by language, and by animalistic noises. We may indicate we're looking forward to eating by making a "MMMMM!" sound, or smacking our lips. Similarly, perhaps the hooting noise the Martians make before feeding is no more than that.
Likewise, we may scream or yell in a incoherent fashion to indicate fear or hurt. And perhaps the Martians' dispairing "Ulla!" cry at the end of the novel is no more than that.
It depends on whether you think the various noises were made by the Martians themselves, or their machines. It is said they used sounds to communicate between the tripods, presumably when they were too far away for telepathy. However I think telepathy is something just speculated on in the book, we can't be sure they had that.
If the "Ulla!" noises were generated by the tripods, then perhaps they have a specific meaning. Of course, that dispairing "Ulla!" call may have no more meaning than an alarm siren.
It seems unlikely they use radio or other forms of modulated electromagnetic radiation to communicate. Voice radio would be a much more efficient and more long-distance method of communication than sound. Since they used sound, presumably they didn't use radio or anything similar.
Lack of radio wouldn't prevent them from sending messages to their home planet. If they used a bright signal lantern, like a huge Aldis lamp, they could have sent messages home that way, presuming the astronomers back home were keeping watch on the Earth.
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Post by lanceradvanced on Apr 10, 2005 13:59:02 GMT
If you look at it anatomically, the martian "mouth" really isn't a mouth, it's a oversize nostril, in which case the "saliva" is more likely mucus that serves the martians the same purpose ours does, i.e. as a dust filter, which even if bacteria were missing on mars would still be needed or the martians would be droping dead of "red lung"
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Post by Lensman on Apr 12, 2005 8:21:09 GMT
one would think a species adapted to feed via virtual transfusions would have an outlet for this.. thus the V shaped beak and its constant stream of saliva or fluid.. given that they do not have a stomach.. one would lead to think its more fluid based associated with the blood work.. than an assistive chemical fluid to aid digestion, aka.. saliva.. Good point: It wasn't saliva, as that's a digestive fluid, and they didn't have digestive systems. Perhaps it was sinus drainage. But any extra fluid should have been removed via the kidneys or whatever organ they have that served the same purpose. mars would have been dying over a long long time, could it be that with that came reduced bacteria etc numbers and strenth, of which over an extended period (ie .. a few generations) martians born to a thinning atmosphere and dying ecosystem would end up with less resistance to bacteria, simply because there wasnt as much as in the past and extra resistance was not needed... Nice idea, but no, the novel says the Martians had conquered their diseases, and exterminated all disease-causing germs. IF the martians possesed artificial intelligence technology, they would have sent meer robots to destroy earth and simply come a few years later (months maybe) when its all said and done.. I agree. The Martians didn't have advanced A.I. or they would have used it to control their fighting machines, rather than risking their own lives. so the digging machine is likely NOT a robot in the true AI sence.. but a form of radio control, most likely stemming from a subsystem of its sister machine... the handling machine.. of which have similar duties to some extent.. The Martians did not use radio communication. They used sound (sirens) to communicate between the tripods at distance; clearly radio would have been superior to that, as well as having longer range. The digging machine could have been controlled by wired remote, but more likely it was programmable. What it was doing was simple and repetitive enuff that it could be programmed for that. There's a clear indication the Martians used a limited form of automation: "The shell burst clean in the face of the Thing... "The decapitated colossus reeled like a drunken giant; but it did not fall over. It recovered its balance by a miracle, and, no longer heeding its steps and with the camera that fired the Heat-Ray now rigidly upheld, it reeled swiftly upon Shepperton. The living intelligence, the Martian within the hood, was slain... and the Thing was now but a mere intricate device whirling to destruction. It drove along in a straight line, incapable of guidance." --I-12. the reason for the digging machine not being directly controled would have been for a few reasons.. them being, increased earth gravity and the inclinations of which the digging machine would need to allign itself (ie near vertical to dig down) would make it impossible for a martian bulk the size of a bear to effectively control the levers and or stay "seated" within the machine when it was digging down.. I'm sure the Martians, with their mechanical genius, could easily have designed a cab that pivoted to keep the operator upright, just as the Tripods had hoods which pivoted to allow the operator to look in different directions. due to the different conditions between earth and mars and the force required to do things differing somewhat, programming something from an alien planet with a lower gravity (it had to be tested on mars im guessing) to dig a hole X - Y dimensions etc.. would result in either a hole too big.. or simply overload its motors.. If we can design a machine which can dig on Mars, then I'm sure Martians, with their greater intelligence, could design a machine which could dig on Earth. It was said they didn't know the exact characteristics of our lower atmosphere so couldn't build their flying machine in advance, but the mechanics of digging are much simpler.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Apr 12, 2005 10:45:46 GMT
Perhaps the Ulla calls have tiny pitch differences that wouldn't be noticed by humans and yet allows for thousands of variations to an Ulla speaker. As it were. Our speech might even sound like 'Grunt Grunt' to them. They would probably write it up as just that in their version of the story. From HG Overlord's 'War of the Worlds' (Translated from the 'ulla' by Otto Lump Lump)... ''As we began to feed, the human beasts grunted and squawked. We have asserted that this grunting is a form of communication but very few Martians are adept at undertanding this awful din. It appears, at the time of writing, to be as primitive as the metal projectiles periodically hefted feebly at our machinery. It sickened us to hear this noise they made but feed we must, so tentacles in our ear orifices, we set to the task at hand. For the following forces, requests would have to be be made for more bipeds from our own planet. They do not emit this un-mars-ly racket as we drain them. It is quite enough to put a civilised martian off his blood rations.'' But then I could well have no idea what I'm talking about. Or grunting about, I should say.
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Post by Lensman on Apr 13, 2005 2:44:20 GMT
It sickened us to hear this noise they made but feed we must, so tentacles in our ear orifices LOL! But they had no ear orifices, just a single exposed tympanic membrane (eardrum) on their head. That should be "so, tentacles pressed against our tympana to mute the noise, ..." But seriously, Nerfy, you have a very good point: Their "Ulla!" cries may have carried a world of meaning to them, altho they all sound the same to us. As in H. Beam Piper's _Little Fuzzy_, where the Fuzzies' language all sounds like squeaking to humans, because of the difference in hearing frequencies.
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Xav
Full Member
Rules are for the obeyance of Fools and the guidance of wise Men
Posts: 119
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Post by Xav on Apr 29, 2005 3:52:11 GMT
Well, there you go, X-200....definitely squashed by 'older and wiser heads' as one sycophant put it. Never mind that you are a member of this Forum, never mind that your views should be looked at with politeness in mind....everyone should be treated to a good solid blast of intellectual arrogance now and again by more qualified and informed minds to put them in their place....definitely a pecking order here, me boy......you are are 'naive' and clearly uninformed, unread and unreachable in your ignorance. Never mind, X-200, I am sure you will survive. Just up and give them a whack yourself.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Apr 29, 2005 11:47:53 GMT
What was all that about, Xav? I don't really any evidence of X200 being given a particularly hard time there. A few people hit the nail there, the Narrator isn't really that reliable as a witness.. that leaves lots of blanks. As fans we sometimes like to go off in flights of fancy in order to fill those blanks.. that's what threads like this are all about. Being individuals, though, the way we fill in those blanks is bound to differ from time to time. That's where it becomes debate. Sure, sometimes it becomes a little heated, but I'd rather see that kind of heated than the plain flaming that can be seen periodically elsewhere. Earthwise was right, Charles is the voice of reason here.. on occasion, he will bring us down to earth with a bump. As Charles would, I'm sure, say though, if we don't like what he's saying then move on to the next post. The same would go for any other person's opinion. Lensman is another who obviously spends a lot of time thinking about various aspects of the story and has his own definite views. However, he has often shown himself willing to listen to other's thoughts. If X200 wanted to answer his posts he was quite entitled to. X200 stated his views, others stated theirs in reply. That's just debate isn't it? There is no pecking order here. Everyone's opinion is as valid as others and I don't see anyone saying otherwise in this debate. I couldn't begin to guess how much I've learned about WotW since I started coming here a long time ago. I may not agree with all the viewpoints made but on occasion something someone says will make me think about my views on a certain part of the story. That's what makes these debates interesting.
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keltiksylk
Junior Member
www.KelticSylk.com
Posts: 28
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Post by keltiksylk on Apr 29, 2005 14:18:59 GMT
I enjoyed reading this thread immensely. Lots of good thoughts about the subtle clues left by Mr Wells... I personally believe "Ulla" is the Martian equivalent of "I want my Mommie"
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Post by Lensman on Apr 30, 2005 3:01:19 GMT
Lensman is another who obviously spends a lot of time thinking about various aspects of the story and has his own definite views. However, he has often shown himself willing to listen to other's thoughts. Nerfy, I think that's the most polite way anyone has pointed out that I'm quite opinionated! (My opinions are my own; who else would want them?) ;D Seriously, I would not presume to put myself in the same ballpark with the depth of knowledge Charles has. He is an active member of the H.G. Wells Society, and very clearly has a great deal of understanding about Wells, Wells' philosophy, and why Wells wrote what he did. As for me, I'm a long-time science fiction fan, and as I'm in my late 40s I'm probably one of the older members of this forum, with more exposure to science fiction literature than most. But I've never even read a single book about Wells himself, nor any annotated version of his writings. My exposure to WotW before finding this forum was limited to a couple of readings, plus a detailed examination of the sections of the novel which described the Martians' technology, in preparation for a role-playing game scenario which I never actually ran. When I found this forum I spent a lot of time just reading before I ever made a single post, and even after that at first I was cautious about "sticking my neck out" in expressing opinions. So what's my point? My point is that if there is a "pecking order" here, it's not anything that's based on longevity (I've been here just a very few months) or who you know. Anyone can achieve the level of knowledge I have about WotW by reading the novel 2 or 3 times times plus spending lots of time reading this forum. OTOH, maybe you actually have a life and have more important things to do than spending hours every day reading this forum! So in my view, someone being lower on the hypothetical "pecking order" than I am doesn't mean I'm better than they are-- it just means they choose not to spend as much time obsessing about WotW as I do. Xav: Unfortunately, we don't all want the same level of politeness from an Internet forum. Partly, what we want is what we've become accustomed to. And when I say "unfortunately", I don't mean "It's too bad you don't want the same social rules as I do." I mean: It's too bad that individuals' different desires for, and expectations during, participating in any Internet forum-- not just this one-- lead to friction between members that have nothing to do with the subject under discussion. Xav, I wouldn't presume to put words in your mouth, but I will tentatively guess that you're used to a form of social interaction where more emphasis is placed on polite discussion, and where it's considered rude to directly contradict anyone. I myself prefer a forum where it's acceptable to have a "sleeves rolled up" argument, where the ideas themselves are the important thing, and all ideas and purported facts should be subjected to rigorous debate, so that only the fittest will survive and be judged the "best answer" by consensus. (Not that a formal consensus is often reached by an Internet forum, unfortunately.) And of course there are those-- and let me hasten to say I'm not talking about you, Xav, or anyone else I expect to read this-- who view their participation in forums as a form of entertainment and/or one-upsmanship, who are not interested in either polite discussion or honest debate. These people "score points" by putting down others and/or getting others upset. This can go even beyond trolling: Once I was in a chat room (NOTE: NOT THIS FORUM!) and someone started "messing with my head" by sending me private messages saying that someone else in the chat was spreading poisonous rumors about me. Well unfortunately at first I believed them. But before long I realized they were lying and denounced them to the group at large, whereupon the jerk quickly left. A couple of the others said I had denounced this person without due cause, but fortunately the moderator was able to look at the private messages and agreed that this person was lying and should be banned from the chat. So what's my point, Xav? My point is that (if my guess is correct-- and I may be way off base here) it's possible that you are not comfortable with the "politeness level" of this forum, but based on my experience with other Internet forums, we are very fortunate to have a level of civility and-- even more rare-- intelligent discussion here which is considerably higher than the norm. And we're also fortunate to have moderators who are willing to spend many thankless (and payless) hours keeping us from getting too far off the track, and keep the discussions from degenerating to the point that they "generate more heat than light." If the issue of what I'm calling the "politeness level" is something you're comfortable with discussing, Xav, I'd like to hear your input. I dunno if it will change anything, but it might help communication if we understood where you're coming from. And I hope Nerfy won't rap my knuckles for such a long post which isn't directly related to WotW. If we're gonna have an extended discussion about "What do we want and expect from this forum" then it should be switched over to the Off-Topic area.
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