Martian Communication

[x200]

ANYWAY! back on topic.. I know war of the worlds was a way to show what would have been considered comparable to modern day west, what its like to be on the other side of its policy.. but thats a different subject.. back to the book

constant saliva
************
from the martians mouth/feeding tube
could be a result of the excess fluid generated by all transfusions.. if you take in blood too fast medically.. you get too much fluid and you basicly drown due to fluid in your lungs, and thats a result of taking a transfusion over hours not seconds or minutes as the martians did..

one could argue that spiders do a similar thing but, spiders have a stomach, they take the nutrients out of the blood and get rid of the waste.. the martians simply replaced there used blood with new and there body simply absorbed the nutrients the way it would there original blood, its an efficent process.. but as I said if anything remotely similar is done in humans (overly quick transfusion) it generates fluid.. too much of it..

one would think a species adapted to feed via virtual transfusions would have an outlet for this.. thus the V shaped beak and its constant stream of saliva or fluid.. given that they do not have a stomach.. one would lead to think its more fluid based associated with the blood work.. than an assistive chemical fluid to aid digestion, aka.. saliva..

of course wells never got close enough in his book.. and just made the closest possible reference.. and of course.. in the shortest time possible

bacteria
*******

now we come to bacteria, mars would have been dying over a long long time, could it be that with that came reduced bacteria etc numbers and strenth, of which over an extended period (ie .. a few generations) martians born to a thinning atmosphere and dying ecosystem would end up with less resistance to bacteria, simply because there wasnt as much as in the past and extra resistance was not needed...

the martians are discribed as emotionless in most ways, (except when dying) one would think that it wasnt an arrogent oversite.. but a fact that simply wasnt seen because they assumed that they still had the bacterial resistance they once had when the superior martian was first "invented"

they wouldnt have been geneticly engineered with so much superiority to the older martians without such resistance... but over so many years and the depleated planets atmosphere and dying ecosystem they simply lost it through cause of having no use for it

the digging machine
****************

the digging machine, and for this I must refer to the real time strategy game, is a controlable robot.. it is controlable of course for game reasons.. however.. that got me thinking.. IF the martians possesed artificial intelligence technology, they would have sent meer robots to destroy earth and simply come a few years later (months maybe) when its all said and done.. however they did not, the fighting machines, flyers and handling machines where inhabbited by there martian controlers...

so the digging machine is likely NOT a robot in the true AI sence.. but a form of radio control, most likely stemming from a subsystem of its sister machine... the handling machine.. of which have similar duties to some extent..

the reason for the digging machine not being directly controled would have been for a few reasons.. them being, increased earth gravity and the inclinations of which the digging machine would need to allign itself (ie near vertical to dig down) would make it impossible for a martian bulk the size of a bear to effectively control the levers and or stay "seated" within the machine when it was digging down.. or indeed come back up.. also with the added weight of the martian driver.. it would I dare say have alot of traction troubles in freshly dug soil...
so I beleve its rather radio control controled by the ever present handling machine...

having it been a computer controled program based simple robot with a closed program, would have been just as illadvised... due to the different conditions between earth and mars and the force required to do things differing somewhat, programming something from an alien planet with a lower gravity (it had to be tested on mars im guessing) to dig a hole X - Y dimensions etc.. would result in either a hole too big.. or simply overload its motors.. it would atleast require the constant correction from an ever watchfull martian to make sure it doesnt make mistakes.. in which in such case.. "direct" radio type control would have been the prefered option..


well I hope this topic isnt too dead anyway following the above off topic arguement, and I welcome any debate on what I have said

[Charles]

Interesting posts, x200. Let's talk about them a bit.

constant saliva
************
Given what Wells said about the higher evolved and simple Martian digestive system, the dripping saliva is purely theatrical; a device to make the Martians appear just that much more inhuman, otherworldly, and incomprehensible.


bacteria
************
As for bacteria, you don't need to speculate; "Micro-organisms, which cause so much disease and pain on earth, have either never appeared upon Mars or Martian sanitary science eliminated them ages ago" - from "What We Saw From the Ruined House."

I'll go into the digging mechanism under the other header a little later.

[x200]

ahh yes,

but where indeed does this thread reside in respect to the book or debate about the actual technology, this very thread entitled "martian communication" is based on speculation.. theres a fine line between science, fiction and writern fiction that has science relations.. I dont think war of the worlds as a whole has a dedicated line between any of them,

fact: mars is a dead planet, there was no martian invasion, that is within our own reality

Book fictional fact: the martians came from mars and attacked earth, the book is a human reporters account and speculation of these events, quoting direct lines would be erronous to a certain point, as it within the war of the worlds universe wasnt exactly an overlord know everything account , rather it was from the accounts of a few humans and rather one sided in respects to the understanding of the martian technology

fiction-science-reality fact:

alot of the science actually makes sence dispite its age..and is open to debate as if the invasion actually happened or could have happened in the time the book was set,
for this we could use an array of real fact science and book related facts, on some topics there is direct conflict, others the line is blured..

the book is writtern, there is no changing it of course.. some may argue it was writtern vaugely on purpace..
others simply say we should not think outside the scope of the original story.. but war of the worlds is such a fine story, that it almost seems that it was designed to provoke such thought and speculation.. and indeed has done for nearly a century

I personally, reside on the side of the coin that prefers to have scientificly accurate fiction (within our own understanding) which would have applied IF these events transpired.. and also would help in the creation of equilly accurate and interesting fan fiction,

if we where to all to stick to the book, indeed im sure there wouldnt be countless discriptions of tripods, martians and there effects, reasons and actions...indeed one might belive that then martians ONLY invaded england and that global dispatches never happened within the WOTW universe

indeed, it is a hard question to answer of weather to stay or deviate from the 3 extreems of which I have documented, and it would make no answer , nor position on which side of the fence you happen to be on at the time anymore valid or invalid as the other

it is with that method of thinking, that I dare say that any "feature" of the martians that looked overly scary, had its biological purpace, and the vague discription given in the book is a result of flawed human observation given the limited understanding of the species and the situation of which the main charicter/reporter was in.. which im sure couldnt be helped too much

[David Faltskog]

INTERLUDE.

As my old dad used to say...Don't wear those,their yer mothers!.

END OF INTERLUDE.

B-B.

[Charles]

You're ignoring the fact that Wells' writing was uneven and sometimes even contradictory - points he was the first to admit. Or maybe you have another explanation for why in 'What Had Happened in Surrey' he reports that spectroscopic examinations of the black smoke revealed "a group of four lines in the blue" while in the 'Epilogue,' the narrator explains that the black smoke powder "unmistakably" shows "an unknown element with a brilliant group of three lines in the green"?

Some try to explain things or elements in the narrative for which there is no explanation. They are not explained precisely because they aren't the point. Explanations of things like Martian communication, saliva or the digging machine actually belong in the Fan Fiction section. We discuss them for fun here, but their appearance here does not legitimize them as things Wells was actually concerned with in 'the book.' You should to go back and read some of my other posts about this aspect of Wells, his writing, and the main themes of the novel.

By saying "some may argue it was writtern vaugely on purpace" you imply that there isn't a point to the novel - which couldn't be further from the truth. This isn't Doctor Who or Star Trek. If quoting from the book has no more relevance to understanding what Wells was saying with the novel, then you have reduced it to a figment of your own imagination and utterly missed what H.G. Wells meant you to see.

[Bayne]

[glow=red,2,300]Charles, if you are trying to say that WOTW has no value other than as a clever piece of propaganda then you miss the very reason that it is such a classic piece of writing while most of Wells non sci-fi work is forgotton by all but a minute handful.

The meaningless fluff is as much responsible for it's success as it's deeper concerns and is therefore just as important.

It is the duty of every WOTW Otaku (to borrow a word) to both consider and try and understand what Wells was trying to say, but also to consider the ramifications of every idea, no matter how throw away. Was the heat-ray an important idea? It's not that vital a part of Wells social commentary, yet it foreshadowed the laser. The black smoke with it's threat of weapons of mass destruction and chemical warefare could be said to be every bit as important as the artillerymans ideas of social re-organisation.

Trying to rationalise the inconsistencies and project logically the loose threads is half the fun of being a fan! Try to refine a Gestalt..... it ceases to be.

[/glow]

[Charles]

Never said it was, Bayne. But to read things into the novel the way many on this board do is distracting. Remember, once upon a time many here were content to believe the novel was just a nice little statement against imperialism...and very little more. Its alright to speculate and read into technological aspects of present day science-fiction like Star Wars or Star Trek, but Wells deserves better.

The Heat-Ray and Black Smoke are important more from the standpoint that they represent other elements of Martian technological supremacy. Had Wells aimed at prophesying things as exotic as lasers he would have spent more time on them in a book of predictions or forecasts like "Anticipations" and less on the phenomena of suburban sprawl and the motor car. And for that matter many of Wells' other scientific romances are largely forgotten today despite being full of his trademark genius. Be honest, how many here have read "The Wonderful Visit" or "The Sea Lady?" "Star Begotten?" "The Croquet Player?"

As closely as I've studied the novel and for as long as I have, I'm only trying to clarify aspects of it which might not be understood by some here yet. I don't apologize for coming across as a wet blanket as I often do. If it becomes too serious or takes the fun out of it for anyone here (I can't imagine how understanding something better would take the fun out if it!), just don't read what I write. Its your right.

[Tripod]

To get back on the subject, maybe I have a new explaination for the ULLAA sounds that the FMs make.

Maybe the Martian have studied us so good that they saw our fears. And they've seen that Humans are very sensitive when it comes to loud noises.
So maybe they just want to make us afraid of them before even see the FMs!

Could it be?
Tripod

[Thunder Child]

Hi tripod,

As far as I know they left the ULLAA sounds out of the Orson Welles broadcast because they feared that it was too frightening for the listeners. So maybe you are right

Greetings,
Johan

[x200]

charles, forgive my bluntness, but I rather think that dispite your rather self confessed professionalism and keeping to the facts being a wet blanket, you also miss another point,

true that war of the worlds was writtern as nothing more (some say) as a stab at imperialism,
but it was writtern in such a way, and such a beleveable way, that it has spawned basicly the science fiction genre... was it just a stab at imperialism, wells could have writtern it in an entirely different context, used weapons that had so much power, they made no sence and many other things, indeed wells was not such a writer.. but simply shooting peoples posts down in flames because of your views that dare not to reach out beyond your generic and frankly.. dull.. views isnt quite what this post is for, it is a post about martian communication.. and while it has gone off topic somewhat, the basics remain.. it is a post discussing the possible purpaces of the weapons used in war of the worlds.. within the war of the worlds universe, explained partly by modern science.. wells book makes so much sence on such a level, that one cannot help but think within the boundrys of the universe set by the book.. because of its realism.. without thinking within a 2 dimensional box, like you seem to be doing.. I dare say, if people stayed as 2 dimensional as you in regaurds to war of the worlds.. it wouldnt have lasted the test of time it has, nor would it have spawned such fine fan fiction, and or generated the dreams and or fears it has..

anyway.. back to the topic

using an example from historical warfare, a noisy weapon oftern is used to kill moral and or insite fear in the target, such examples can be refered to the german stuka with its dive brake death whistle.. ww1 mortars, and indeed the warcrys of warriors, both modern and past.. any machine used in combat has its own warcry as such, and while some arnt intentionally designed to generate fear or to be used as a weapon.. they end up being used as such.. an example of this would be the diesel engine of an israeli tank in a palistinian street.. attack chopper rotors or the drone of bomber engines in ww2.. indeed even the devices designed to protect can generate as much disorder, whoever has heard the ww2 air-raid siern.. it would have ended up generating fear, and killing moral before anything..

war is full of noises and noisemakers, it hasnt changed throughout the ages.. and indeed the martian war machines have this feature.. weather its for communication, ecolocation.. or a signaling device.. it seems that it was used as a duel purpace.. to signal a comrade, as mentioned later in the book.. too annouce victory, status.. and indeed.. to scare the hell out of the petty humans below....

one could also conclude.. that given that humans where a foodsource.. they would rather scare them out of hiding, to be collected and help with the war effort by means of food supply.. than rather kill with the black dust, rendering them useless.. those that they cannot scare, are likely soldiers with weaponry.. however any generic unarmed civillian would have been wise to find another place to hide upon there approach

[Charles]

Bluntness, right. Perhaps you have limited experience in the critical analysis of literature. Every scholarly edition of "The War of the Worlds" I've seen has been written with the same analytical and matter-of-fact approach I have about it, so if that is being two-dimensional and dull, I am in fine company. Perhaps someday you'll stumble across the Bergonzi, Hughes/Geduld, Stover, Danahay or other critical editions and begin to understand there is so much more to the novel than the minutiae we often get distracted by or misinterpret. And people getting distracted is one of the reasons Wells ‘the propagandist’ stopped writing scientific romances and began to focus on journalism and social topics to express his ideas (after all, his argument with Henry James was over the question of whether the purpose of a novel is as an ‘art form’ or a ‘means to an end’). The real joy of “War of the Worlds” is in understanding it for what it is (shortcomings and all) and not what we wish it was - or formulating explanations for Wells' inconsistencies or the uneven nature of some of his writing.

Your points on the psychological effectiveness of noisy weaponry are good. The 'Jericho Trumpets' on the Luftwaffe's Stukas were particularly effective on the Eastern Front, while German buzz bombs could freeze a Londoner's heart. Wells understood the history of warfare well enough to know his Martians must have some sort of audible signature, if only for theatrical purposes. But his inconsistency here is, if telepathy was truly their means of communication, why did they need/use audio signals to call for help or communicate between fighting-machines? Their "ear" was said to be almost useless in our thicker atmosphere. In fact the Martian battle plan is probably best expressed by a familiar contemporary phrase; as the ultimate "shock and awe" campaign.

[Bayne]

[glow=red,2,300]I keep being reminded of Apocalypse Now.... Is Allooooo the Martian equivalent of Wagner?

As for Telepathy, the book states it as a theory, though one strongly held by the Journalist. I'm not sure if Wells always wants us to trust his first person narratives... look at the way he almost makes you sympathetic for the invisible man... almost... the way he shows the self justification of characters, the one-sided version of the argument in First Men In The Moon that suggests so much... can we be sure about the journalists judgement? Can we trust his honesty about the fight with the curate?

Besides, maybe the brainwaves don't travel to well through solid objects. The aloo might not be meant for Martian ears, but for micrphone pickups on the machine that flash pretty lights on the pilots console, maybe the hoods are pressurised and the critters hear perfectly well in them (of course they would still need the micrphones)... I still don't know about pressurised hoods, it'd sure be tough for the birds to peck at the martians that way.[/glow]

[Charles]

That is one of the main points about the narrator; how trustworthy is he? We already know how self-absorbed, arrogant and unreliable he is (could it be a disease of speculative philosophers?) – and these are the qualities that H.G. put forward to make it obvious the narrator was not meant to be seen as Wells himself.

It seems clear the Martian Ullalations were intended as a theatrical device designed to show how far beyond man’s comprehension Martian science and culture is – if we were able to explain it, it might not seem so fantastic anymore! The thing about Wells is, as preachy as he was, if it was a vital point, you can bet your boots he would have explained it – or at least attempted to. So how do Martians communicate? Wells is purposely vague because that detail isn’t as important as the speculative lesson in biological evolution his Martians were meant to teach. Perhaps they are a subconscious embodiment of his later Open Conspiracy idea (certainly the Martians were all about a New World Order); all working in concert towards an obvious goal, yet coupled with a warning that total cooperation and steadfast devotion to the task at tentacle doesn’t guarantee success.

As for the fighting-machine hoods, I always took them to be enclosed. Martians had a hard time breathing in our atmosphere, so the implication is their advanced science would have provided them a barrier against Earth’s immediate environment…but this barrier was evidently insufficient against Earthly bacteria and was either breached by the birds (the triumph of biology over intellect) or somehow became compromised after the controlling Martian assumed hood temperature.

[Tripod]

Speaking about the Hood my first vision of it whas the Jeff Wayne picture.
But my own version is totally different from the JW picture. Sure I understand why you think its very logic that the FMs didn't had open Hoods.
But try to think as a man of the year 1988 if you look and the vehicles in that time you don't see a whole closed 'cage'. So its maybe hard for those people to inmagine such a thing they aren't used to it. So maybe Wells wasn't either so he made an open Hood.
He discribes the FMs as cloked silhouettes(< bad spelling I know!)
I must confes that my models don't look like cloked people. As I must discribe the Hood of my own FM it goes a bit like this: Its a sort of seat with a Martian in it with above of him a sort of protection plate. You can only see the Martian's tentacles and eyes.

Another thing Wells did say that he could see the Martian sit in the Hood. But this just like many other things in the story is just a matter of opinion. Don't you say?

Tripod

[Earthrise]

Boardmates,
Don't be hard on Charles, he's not a wet blanket, just the messenger. Art means different things to everyone who witnesses it, we all have different experiences and worldviews that colour our perception. While I enjoy expanding Wells' work and have loved discussing some of the grey areas here with everyone, Charles is right that Wells didn't intend for his work to be some kind of Martian encyclopedia. The Martians were a vehicle for his message, nothing more.

Having said that, it shouldn't stop us from having our fun expanding and exploring his great works. Once the artist creates their piece and decides to share it, he\she loses total control over it. WOTW is ours now, to do with what we will (with respect). The great man is dead so can't refute or confirm our interpretations. I just think he'd be happy we are still talking about him, his immortality assured. And his ideas are still current and fresh in the third century after their release.

Charles is the voice of reason on our site, may it never dim. We dreamers have a habit of letting our feet leave the ground. Balance is the key.

Earthrise.

[Sam]

The only problem with the theory of the 'Ulla' noise being a distress signal is in Jeff Wayne's Musical, the Martians shout Ulla all the time, never Aloo. This also happens in the games. Perhaps Jw had a different perspective of Martian Communication

[EvilNerfherder]

As was mentioned in an earlier post here, in the novel the Martians only call 'Aloo' once in the book. The rest of the time it's 'Ulla'. I suspect Doreen Wayne, when dramatising it for the album, went for the most common call used.

[krys666]

Sorry but i haven't read all this thread...

I just thought when they were feeding, the noise they made was just noises, like we sometimes make noises when we're eating.

[Killraven]

krys666 said:

Sorry but i haven't read all this thread...

I just thought when they were feeding, the noise they made was just noises, like we sometimes make noises when we're eating.

Krys - I take it you're referring to the 'cheerful hooting'??

[Bayne]

[glow=red,2,300]I always loved that 'cheerful hooting' line.. so macabre and darkly humurous [/glow]