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Post by Killraven on Oct 28, 2004 12:29:13 GMT
Revisiting this subject again: Has anyone considered in particular why the martians feed on living creatures? There didn't appear to be any suggestion in the novel that the Martians also fed on the dead... why is this? Was Wells' perception that of the typical vampire requirement for 'fresh, living blood' :Pas the blood of the dead is 'tasteless and flat'? That the blood of the living has rejuvinating powers? It takes a while for a corpse's blood to clot so it can't be for that reason surely? There must be a reason, as it is otherwise wasteful of martian energy chasing down humans when they could simply pick up and carry away dead ones.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Oct 28, 2004 12:41:12 GMT
I may be wrong on this, apologise if I am, but some years ago I am sure I read something about WOTW and DRACULA that mentioned Stoker was not pleased with Wells for nicking the idea of a lifeforce living from fresh blood of its victim.
But I agree that its a good point about the blood being "fresh" as not to clot, something that I have always considered Wells was referring to when the Martians feed.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Oct 28, 2004 19:35:38 GMT
Charles may well correct me on this but I suspect the blood drinking habits of the Martians were written in to 'inject' a bit of extra horror into the story. What could be more horrible than aliens invading Earth? When they use us as a food supply when they invade, perhaps? I think you're right about the clotting thing anyway. Something fresh is always better than something not so fresh. I'm sure the Martians would think the same way as us in that respect.
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Post by Topaz on Jan 21, 2005 10:47:17 GMT
Hello, I seem to be getting my 'new member enthusiam' all out at once! (other posts elsewhere) It's just wonderful to actually be able to talk about this book with other interested - and intelligent - people. Perhaps this is a little presumptuous for a newbie, but I'd like to put out a rather radical idea and see what the board thinks of it. Perhaps the Narrator simply misunderstood what he was seeing and the Martians didn't feed via injection at all. -Gasp!- Heresy, I know, but bear with me a moment. As was mentioned earlier by others, I've always been bothered by the lack of a 'natural' feeding mechanism in Wells' Martians. I understand the point he was trying to make philosophically, but the pragmatist in me thinks it's a heck of a long stretch to 'evolve' (naturally or artificially) a being with no natural ability to eat. How do they feed their young before an artificial valve is installed, or do Martians simply develop 'tracks' like a heroin junkie? Wouldn't the vein wall just give out after a few years of all that puncturing? So what then? What if, instead of feeding, the Narrator saw a group of Martians desperately trying to gain immunity to the diseases that would have undoubtably started taking hold by that point in the story? The party of Martians that landed for the invasion would, primarily, be soldiers by necessity and might not be trained in their version of medicine. Perhaps they thought (mistakenly) that some factor in the blood of the humans would confer some immunity unto them, as well. The Narrator himself states that he only actually saw it being done once. Again, as others have mentioned, that "fleshy beak" seems perfect for biting prey. If they can engineer out all the digestive system, why leave the beak? (Yes, I'm pushing this to the point of absurdity, but as long as I'm at it...) So that leaves a requirement for a REAL feeding method, plus a reason why subsequent autopsy missed the necessary digestive system. If the Martians bit a victim, then either sucked blood directly or somehow liquified the interior tissues like a spider, no really sophisticated digestive system would be needed. It could be a simple stomach-sack - perhaps ribbed for increased surface area - to allow the absorption of nutrients from the injested liquid. The thing would have to be between and below the lungs, allowing whatever passed for a diaphram to impart the suction. Waste could be vomited out through the mouth (Ugh!) The autopsy could have missed it because all of the Martian corpses had started to decompose (or were damaged by dogs) and the lungs/diaphram/body had collapsed down into the 'stomach,' which then might be mistaken for a pocket of especially decomposed flesh, since on earth it would be simply a-riot with bacteria. As I said, I know this is pushing a desire for realism to absurd lengths, and quite against Wells' point in 'designing' his aliens the way he did, but this is the sort of thing I think about when reading this book (however many times it's been, over the years!) It's a sickness. Anyone?
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Post by maniacs on Jan 21, 2005 11:53:17 GMT
Its a nice theory!
But wells does state the martians had no digestive track.
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Post by malfunkshun on Jan 22, 2005 19:34:49 GMT
suppose that the martians had some type of symbiotic relationship with the 'food bipeds' which were native to mars. the martians fed on the blood of the bipeds, and possibly, in a way that wasn't expounded upon, the martians provided something necessary to the existence of the bipeds themselves.
so, the martians, after studying the earth intently through their crystal eggs, decide that the humans will make an adequate replacement for the food bipeds, possibly even a superior food source, as it doesn't seem that they brought any biped breeding stock. or, possibly the bipeds just wouldn't have been able to live on the earth, which was pointed out by wells... that their spongy skeletal structures would have shattered in the higher earth gravity.
so, the martians have possibly evolved a very specific way of feeding, based on their 'theoretical' symbiotic relationship with the 'food bipeds'. so, with that in mind, it personally makes me wonder about the actual food the martians need, which is blood. i don't remember it being mentioned at all in the text that the martians posessed any type of skeletal structure at all, while the 'food bipeds' in fact did have skeletons, albeit spongy weak ones. now, since blood is actually manufactured in the marrow of the bones, and if the martians themselves didn't have any bones, how would they manufacture their own blood?
they would have to get it from the food bipeds, which i've theorized that they have a symbiotic relationship of some sort with. and since food bipeds can't survive on earth, they have to get their blood from the local stock... humans.
just a theory as to why the martians even use blood at all as a food source.
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Post by Bayne on Jan 22, 2005 19:58:02 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]Rgarding symbiosis... I think that the service provided to the bipeds by the overlords would be.. not exterminating them. Much in the same way that we provide cows with not being extinct. I expect they farm them.
Topaz, welcome to the group, great to see new people posting esp. with new ideas. You have a neat theory but I think Wells suggestion seems more realistic to me (just look at how far human robotics and life support technology is progressing!) the only trouble is that some degree of digestion/excretion is required, but I think that could be handled by the martians on a cellular level. Regarding injection... they could have a dedicated implant (such as the one used in the Scarlet Traces graphic novel) or maybe their veins don't collapse so easily. Regarding their young, Well they take their nutrients from the parents untill they bud off and after that they might be ready to inject themselves.
Edit: Oops, oh yeah. and the peak is described as fleshy and quivering.. doubt that could do much to someone(though the starfish/spider idea would still work)[/glow]
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Post by malfunkshun on Jan 22, 2005 20:16:14 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]Rgarding symbiosis... I think that the service provided to the bipeds by the overlords would be.. not exterminating them. Much in the same way that we provide cows with not being extinct. I expect they farm them. [/glow] yeah, i thought about that too. but the reason why i brought up symbiosis, is because it is usually an evolved state between two organisms. since the martians have obviously evolved to the point where they have no digestive systems and require fresh blood for sustenance, it would make sense that a symbiotic relationship may have developed between them and the food bipeds, who seem to have a quite spongy (mostly marrow for manufacturing blood?) skeletal structure, which might have evolved just for the purpose of supplying blood for the martians. otherwise... why use food bipeds at all? why not synthesize their nutrients, if they are so technologically advanced?
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Post by Bayne on Jan 22, 2005 20:35:37 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]The same result could be had from deliberate breeding. The cow analogy working well.
I expect the bipeds were used because they were there to begin with. After that they would have been deliberatly bred to be more productive. Even once the technology was available to manufacture their 'food' artificially, unless it were to prove more efficient then I doubt they'd change over. [/glow]
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Post by malfunkshun on Jan 22, 2005 20:49:29 GMT
i'm trying to think on a larger timescale. its easy to imagine the martians just farming their food, like we do, since our history only spans a few thousand years of agriculture and farming.
however, the martians have probably evolved for several million years more than we have, so thinking of an evolved symbiotic relationship between the bipeds and the martians is a more forward thinking idea, imo. after all they're aliens, they're supposed to be... well, alien. not like us.
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Post by Topaz on Jan 22, 2005 21:00:19 GMT
Thanks, Bayne! I was so pleased when I stumbled upon this site, with all the great discussion.
Thanks also, to everyone who commented on my post. You raise some very good points.
But I still like my theory. ;D
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Post by Bayne on Jan 22, 2005 21:14:09 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]But the martians are sort of supposed to be like us... in the future... a cautionary tale perhaps.[/glow]
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Post by malfunkshun on Jan 22, 2005 22:00:25 GMT
Wells used the Morlocks and the Eloi to represent British social classes of his time which had evolved into those two distinctly different races, which through evolution acquired a kind of morbid symbiotic relationship with eachother. Using that as a reference, I believe that an evolved relationship between the martians and their food supply could also represent some kind of grotesquely evolved humanity, like you said... a kind of warning of the future
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Post by quaderni on Jan 23, 2005 23:03:47 GMT
yeah, i thought about that too. but the reason why i brought up symbiosis, is because it is usually an evolved state between two organisms. Mal, yes, I think the point about symbiosis is very important. The Eloi and Morlocks obviously have a similar symbiotic/parasitic relationship in _TM_. In _The War_, Wells, I think, hints at something similar but doesn't elaborate upon it - except that on Mars, apparently, machine technology has totally removed the need for physical labour and hence both 'races' of Martian humanoid have physically degenerated.
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Post by BrutalDeluxe on Jan 23, 2005 23:27:43 GMT
On the subject of blood draining, has anyone seen the film "The Abominable Dr Phibes". There is this scene where Vincent Price (Phibes) drains out all Terry-Thomas' blood with a syringe. Utterly ludicrous but still squeamishly terrifying... [/quote] Yeah my dad made me watch it! He lines all of the bottles up on the ledge. One scene that disturbed me was the masquerade ball where the person's mask kept getting progressively tighter and tighter till their skull was crushed. Yuck!
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Post by kingofthemorlocks on Jan 24, 2005 1:37:59 GMT
Abominable Dr. Phibes is one of my favorite films ever. Very much a Valentine's Day film for me.
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Post by EvilNerfherder on Jan 24, 2005 12:20:15 GMT
A little OT perhaps but... the two Phibes films were good but as far as Vincent Price/ Revenge/ Horror films goes I prefer 'Theatre of Blood'. That's the one with Vinnie as Edward Lionheart, crap Shakespearean actor who gets revenge on the critics who mauled him. Very camp and full of black humour with some ingenious, nasty deaths based on Shakespeare's plays. Excellent entertainment! Vincent's best performance..ever.. though has to be in 'Witchfinder General' (or.. inexplicably.. 'Edgar Allen Poe's The Conqueror Worm' in the U.S... I know, I know.. they renamed it to cash in on the Corman/ Price Poe adaptions, even though it doesn't have anything to do with Poe ). His performance as Matthew Hopkins is pretty chilling.
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alabaster
Full Member
Watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's...
Posts: 112
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Post by alabaster on Jan 31, 2005 15:24:16 GMT
This is something that's been puzzling me about the Martian feeding habits. Can a body survive on blood alone? Surely they would need a better source of protein?
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Jan 31, 2005 16:50:13 GMT
Ummmmm Danone!
If only the Martians had seen that advert and got some 'friendly' bacteria
H_C
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Post by Topaz on Feb 1, 2005 5:24:29 GMT
This is something that's been puzzling me about the Martian feeding habits. Can a body survive on blood alone? Surely they would need a better source of protein? A very, very, good question. There are a few animals that manage it, so I suppose it's possible. The REAL question is if you can actually sustain yourself simply by injecting someone else's blood into your veins. Wells was after other, more metaphorical, issues when he chose injection as the feeding method for his martians, but since I'm in the "what would it be like if it really happened" camp, I wonder at the possibility of that. It seems like your blood chemistry and metabolism would have to exactly match the prey organism to make it work - highly unlikely if you're from another world. The other problem might be that digesting food gives a bit of a 'time release' action - food in your stomach is, in effect, 'stored' until it's digested. Any nutrients in 'injected' blood would have to be used comparatively 'immediately'. Perhaps the martians are able to store the nutrients into fat, to be re-introduced into the bloodstream later? I personally prefer a completely non-canon feeding method for my 'real world' martians (http://robk.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=book&thread=1054174010&action=display&start=23), and use the mechanism that the Narrator simply misconstrued what he observed to keep it in line with the story. However, I'm definitely in the minority in this view! ;D
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