BIASED AGAINST PENDRAGON!

[balance]

Did I read you above that you are going to ban me because I am obviously retarded? Is that right? ANother Pendragon supporter silenced. Throw me on the heap with the rest and keep spreading your lies!

[FALLINGSTAR]

balance said:

When you demand an apology from Jeff Wayne for promising tours he never held, for promising movies he never delivered, for touting FX that look like crap as state of the arts, when you demand an apology from Tom Cruise for saying his War of the Worlds was going to be the most expensive ever, then you will have some credibility. Did you make such demands of Wayne and Tom Cruise? If so, show me where they are!

So I could repost anything form anywhere on this site and that would be acceptable, right?

What are you talking about balance? For a start - Spielbergs film has had just as much, probably more bashing on here [ and possibly other sites ] than your film. We were led to believe that your film would be a reasonably budgeted film that would be in the cinemas - when it quite blatantly was never going to be.
And even though I don't agree with everything Jeff Wayne's done in regards to WOTW, I don't recall him making promises and then breaking them.

Ok, the film has been delayed but I 'hope' that's because he wants to do it the best he can. The only time I've ever spoken to Jeff Wayne is in the chatroom on his site asking questions about the tour - so we ain't all Jeff Wayne employees like you're trying to make out!

[Ashe Raven]

The tour was delayed as with so many other tours. He wanted to make it the best possible he could and guess what, he dleivered to millions who gave him a standing ovation for a delay well worth waiting for. The CGI movie is delayed until 2008, which again wil be jedged on it's delayed merit.

Speilberg's film was rushed and a prdeicatble yarn. That gets it's fair share of attacks. We don't get Paramount lovers bashing us for our opinion.

Your film was rushed despite advice from the fans to take your time on the film. It would have been judged by it's merits if it was delayed for good reason, like say an honest announcment that the deadline couldnt be reached and you ran out of money. The film could have perhaps been less slighted if the limitations had been recognised and the much toated worldwide theatrical release was not insisted upon when there was no possibilty of you pulling through. The fact is this, Hines lied and continued to lie through this whole farce.

Jeff Wayne kept his word and when he couldnt he explained why and the delays paid off for him. He produced something trhough the delays Hines could not. A quality production. As for his CGI film, well the jry wil not be out ontil the film is seen, but Jeff waynes history speaks volumes for him as does Hine's own history, only in not so praising terms.

[Ashe Raven]

balance said:

JEFF WAYNE DID NOT DELIVER ON ALL HIS PROMISES! FAT LIE!

Hy the way as you love lwayers so much, would you like to see mine for that slander?

[FALLINGSTAR]

balance said:

I was following your posts on the thread with the fake review that was made to look like it was supporting Pendragon and Tim, but actually being an inside out review that was created to confuse. So after reading all the bullnuts for a long time, and watching you guys attack attack attack anybody who comes one here to support Pendragon, I signed up and responded the other day. I got tired of watching you guys put up fake quotes that Tim never spoke and NOBODY on here objects to! You guys seem able to micro-disect Pendragon, searching out any flaw, but you are too slow to notice that the quotes you put up, supposedly from Tim, are slightly altered. Not enough that the casual viewer would take notice, but enough to change Tim's statements and shade them into craziness. Or maybe you don't care. You are some mean and twisted dudes.

FYI, there were about 100 talented artists and costumers and actors and musicians and grips and models builders and and cgi artists that you don't ever give a crap about as you attack Tim. You know Tim didn't make this movie himself, by himself. He didn't sit at every computer. He didn't act every line. Tim believed in us. He believed we could all deliver. Yes, the money wasn't there like it was before. But I doubt Tim ever touched the mustache. But he did order the mustache to have the writer physically look like Wells. If Piana looks like Freddy Mercury, then so did Wells. Have any of you ever seen Wells? The mustache was purchased from a professional union shop theater and hand created. It is no different than any mustache in any movie. No different than Sean Connery' wig, Russel Crowe's wig or any facial hair applied for film or TV anywhere. If it sagged sometimes, it was because the movie was shot in 110 degree weather. Tim actually collapsed in the heat during the 8 weeks of filming. Elderly Jack Clay could only work in the heat for two hours a day at most. There have been so many lies told on here about Tim that you guys lost your credibility a LOOOOOONG TIME AGO. That is if you ever had any. You have made so many false attacks on Tim and his movie that your forums should be scraped clean. But you won't because Jeff Wayne needs a place to believe he is cornering the market. Yes, there are many others that think Jeff Wayne's bunch has behaved very unprofessional.

Yes. I worked on Tim's movie. No, I'm not his partner Susan Goforth. NO, I'm not going to reveal who I am. You have done much to hurt Tim and ALL THE PEOPLE who worked on his movie, while remaining anonymous.

Tim is not the man you on this site paint him to be. He is a hard working, talented, considerate man. Not too long ago, about a hundred friends and some cast crew members attended an private informal screening of Tim's director's cut. It went well. Everybody had fun, as one would expect for such an event.

After the show everyone talked and the conversation flowed to talk about the internet. Lots of guys and girls piped up that nobody should give time to these sites because nobody can come on here and support Pendragon without being attacked and driven off.

I looked at your archives a while before I joined, and I counted at least six people that you ran off with attacks so bad that the threads had to be locked. Everybody, not just Tim, but everybody who bothered to read these sites agreed that you guys overwhelmingly support Jeff Wayne and attack Pendragon. I looked at the attack posts that Tim talked about. The ones that started months before his movie was released.

Well, this will cause your publicity machines to run wild. You guys ran off a reporter who was directed here to show that ANYBODY who says anything that supports Pendragon gets attacked off this site. That way you have no opposing voice. Get it? You guys ran off a reporter who was testing you!

You pretend to have balance, but you proved what Tim and many others are saying about you.

Also FYI, several times Jeff Wayne associates have contacted Tim and Pendragon with secret complaints. Secret, because nobody connected to Jeff Wayne is publicly allowed to say anything negative about him. Someone from Jeff Wayne's bunch emailed and had several calls with Tim. I know this for a fact because he put one on his speaker cell phone so we could all listen. The man said that Jeff Wayne is highly litigious and that the Chinese tour fell apart and went to legal. Remember the Chinese tour? He told Tim that it was mostly Jeff Wayne's friends and employees that sit on this and a couple other sites. That Jeff Wayne is almost broke and that he attacks anybody that breathes any other version of War of the Worlds. And don't talk to me about Spielberg. You guys don't have the money to hurt him in a publicity war. And none of you are stupid enough to take on Tom Cruise. The director of the Asylum movie said they got clearance from Paramount. Clearance! While Paramount was sending Tim threat letters.

It was when this man who worked closely with Jeff Wayne had these conversations with Tim, that Tim began to wake up as to whom was doing the most attacks on Pendragon and Tim.

I look forward to McTodds scathing reply. Oh and by the way, mister crazy McTodd, Todd Anderson, your fake tennis match photo theory is one for ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST. Tim has three years to file a libel suit against you. And your criminally created with images that you had to jump the macro-vision protection to get, Blackmoon movie. (Insert an, "I don't care," reply from Todd Anderson (fake name) here.)

Back to the reason I started this thread, you just published a whole stream of fake quotes from Tim, mixed in with a few real ones to make them look credible, and then attacked the fake quotes as if he said them. Just like Tim said you do. Half of the quotes are unsourced. That is typical bullnuts from the posters on this site!

Anyway, you hurt a lot of people's careers, not Tim's. Tim just tried to make his movie in a sea of people who believe they are H.G. Wells. JANUARY 1ST, 2016 - FREEDOM FROM WAYNE DAY!

You know, if he doesn't postpone it again, without a word of complaint from any of you, Jeff Wayne will supposedly release some kind of a thing resembling a movie or musical next year. And you guys earned him alot of payback from alot of artists that you have trashed. Wait. Just wait. Too many people have been unjustly hurt in your pursuit of Tim. Too many people watched you twist things and twist things to let Jeff Wayne release a movie (like it will EVER happen) to not reap what you have sewn. The CGI in Wayne's movie already looks old school and hopelessly dated. You have no right to call Tim a liar when you MAKE UP THINGS HE NEVER ACTUALLY SAID ALL OVER THE PLACE. You don't care if your lies blend with the truth and get mixed together. You want it that way. But the GIANT WORLD TOUR promised and promoted by Wane years ago, NEVER HAPPENED. Did you guys complain? NOT A PEEP. NOT EVEN A TINY CRITICISM! NONE! HOW MANY TIMES WILL JEFF WAYNE PUSH THE DATE OF HIS GREAT OPUS MOVIE BACK WITHOUT A SOUND? AT LEAST THIS ANSWERS THE TREE FALLING IN THE WOODS QUESTION. IF JEFF WAYNE MAKES UP SOME DATES AND MAKES SOME PROMISES, WILL ANY OF HIS SUPPORTERS COMPLAIN? NOT A SOUND.

HAVE A NICE DAY. LET'S SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES BEFORE THIS THREAD IS LOCKED OR DELETED! Look for the article by the reporter you ran off. I will enjoy you being exposed. And hey, maybe you can turn it to your publicity advantage.

Or your usual approach when you don't want attention drawn to something. A big, "Why bother." And instead you jump to the posts you want in the forefront.

I'm going to get in trouble with Tim for answering you guys like this, but I'm sick and tired of watching you spread bile over a lovely movie and all of its hard working artists.

The bile is yours. You may own the darkness you have created. It will meet you when Jeff wayne's movie comes out on DVD next year or some future date it gets pushed back to without a whimper from his loyal lap dogs.

And what's the last sentence supposed to mean? Seems to me that the real bile is coming from you balance!

[Killraven]

Hello,

Welcome Mr Balance (or Mrs/Miss/Ms Balance if that more correct!)

I have been a member of this forum since not long after it started, so I felt moved to say a few words.

Thank you for taking your time out to post on this site. I would like you to know I do not bear any ill feeling towards any other member of this site (ok, so I have the odd constructive disagreement with others here from time to time, krys666 was a bit annoying on occasion, and Rusti's a closet Tory, lol ;D but we can't all be perfect, can we? ). I have grown to respect them all (yep, that includes you, DF!!! )

I would also like to confirm the following.

1. I am not a moderator here. Although I have generally been impressed by the way the site is moderated - I am sure you will also have seen that several threads have been locked by the mods due to pointless insults or recirculating criticism of the Pendragon film. This would not have been done if War of the Worlds Online existed for the purposes of slating Mr Hines' film.

2. I am in no way connected with Jeff Wayne in a personal or business capacity, or with Jeff Wayne Enterprises, Ollie Records etc., nor do I live in the vicinity of Jeff's house (in fact I have no idea where Jeff lives - if anyone here wants to drop me a pm about that, please do, since I could then pop round and have my Special Edition Box Set signed ;D).

3. I am in no way connected with Paramount, Spielberg, Cruise etc.

4. I am merely an independent individual, a fan - drawn here only because of my shared love and respect of HG Wells' works and especially of one of his most popular stories, which in my opinion is one of the best works of fiction ever written. My only claim to fame being until recently I lived within a mile of the Sandpits near to which Mr Wells' martian tormentors were said to have landed

If I may, I would like to set the record straight about the purpose of this forum. As far as I know, it is merely a conduit for discussion between the many and varied fans of WOTW, in all its guises. These guises include the original book, various audio renditions including Jeff Wayne's musical, the four films, computer games, board games, pop videos, the list goes on. The breadth of interest in the story is underpinned by the wealth of fan fiction, art and modelling that has been created, rarely with the intention of commercial gain but to . To my knowledge, there is only one member on this site whom I recall had any real connection with Jeff Wayne, and he was forced to leave the site recently due to personal and health reasons. If I were to discover that the site was in fact a Jeff Wayne advertising vehicle and nothing else then I would be very dismayed and would leave the site straight away. In my opinion, Jeff's musical is a masterpiece of creativity and will go (and indeed has gone) down in history as a landmark of the rock world. But I would not be happy belonging to any institution touting one-sided propaganda at the expense of all else. I do not feel this is the case here and I believe I have been around long enough to tell if this kind of thing were going on. Yes, Jeff's work is perhaps more highly respected here by more people than any other variation on the story, save for the original work. However I believe this is due to the quality of the product and not from any sinister commercial pressure (I believe they refer to that in the US as "shilling" ). I would also find it hard to believe that Jeff Wayne is broke (if he were, then I doubt he would have found the cash to fund his amazing stage rendition of the musical which took years of planning and preparation).

My personal view is that I have yet to see a filmed version of the story which satisfies my expectations. This isn't to take anything away from the efforts of the filmmakers who have attempted a retelling, simply that I don't feel that the story has been given the justice that it deserves.

I don't have any particular issue with the Pendragon film. In fact I quite liked it in some ways. Other posters on here will back me up. You may also wish to view my review of the original uncut version and I am sure you will agree that it was quite balanced - there were elements I liked and elements I disliked.

I liked the fact that Hines was brave enough to place the story in its original setting and to follow closely to the original storyline. I was even relatively pleased with Anthony's performance (with or without moustache!), along with that of John Kaufmann as the Curate.

Equally, there were things I was displeased with, which I thought might have been done better, given a little care. Some of these problems will undoubtedly have been due to the starvation budget upon which the film appears to have been made. I thought the visual effects lacked finesse and a sense of reality (and I have seen an awful lot of science fiction movies of enormously varying budgets). Some of the acting I felt was way below par, and British accents variable. I felt most of the costumes and props were poorly researched (people in the UK never dressed like that). Some of the dialogue was stilted, as was the attention to detail. Editing was poor (some scenes were stilted and lacked logic) and the film seemed overlong as a result.

Like I said, some of my criticisms could have been dealt with if a greater budget had been available. This would have allowed greater expense and effort on the visual effects. More thought would have been given over locations, and it might have been possible for filming to have taken place in the UK, using British actors who would not have to struggle with accents or in slipping into 'Victorian mode'. The odd 'name' actor might also have served to raise the profile of the movie to a greater audience. If any of the crew had visited the real Horsell Common they would have found the majority of it to be protected and untouched, and, if permission had been sought, I'm sure the authorities would have allowed scenes to be shot there.

Despite my misgivings and dissatisfaction with Mr Hines' movie, this does not stop me wishing to purchase a copy of the 'Special' Director's Cut (and I have clearly posted this desire elsewhere). Just like I have a copy of the imperfect versions by Messrs. Pal, Latt and Spielberg.

Pendragon's film has received much criticism, yes, but none of the adaptations (including Wayne's - DF!) have been above criticism. The criticism for Hines would appear to be as much from disappointment over the way the film was touted as much as the end content. The assumption is that funding was much greater than was indicated int the end product (I am sure you would not seek to argue that the film does not look like c. $42 million/£21 million has been spent on it, as was first suggested). This is not meant to detract from the effort that you and your colleagues put into producing the film against such apparent financial adversity. Tim draws most of the criticism since as director it is seen as his baby, his vision. Just like Spielberg, Latt, Pal, Welles and Wayne...yes, Jeff Wayne too!...have also received such criticism. It is also worth mentioning that if Tim was concerned about the issues some people here had with his film, he might have tackled the issue head on and approached the forum to talk these out. That's exactly what David Latt did. Most people would agree that Latt's version is not a great movie, but he gave up some of his valuable time to post on here and relate to us, the die hard fans, what he was trying to achieve. And I think most people respect him greatly for that, even if they didn't rate his efforts.

I think what I am trying to say here is that you appear to have come in here all guns blazing, attacking this forum as a whole, suggesting that everyone is 'out to get' Pendragon. I can sincerely state that isn't the case, since even if you deduct only myself from the whole, its no longer 'everyone'. Complaining about an alleged blanket attack against your production whilst at the same time blanket attacking a group of disparate individuals does not give credence to your point of view. Nor does complaining about anonymity - since I notice you have not posted under your full real name. Please take a step back and see, there is a wide spread of opinion on this site.

I do appreciate your comments, since we have had precious little real 'on the ground' commentary regarding the making of this film. Some insight into the everyday challenges of making your movie might serve to provoke more positive contributions from the members here.

Best regards,

KR

[Rob]

I'm so sick to death of all this shiling crap. I really am.

I have nothing to do with any company, I have met Jeff Wayne once, for about 20 seconds, that is the photo you are talking about balance. I set this site up as a young fan, I was 19, I wasn't influenced by anyone, paid, told what to do. If I was contacted by anyone to remove things I did with haste (including Mr Hines) all we have tried to do is talk about War of the Worlds here.

We have tried to keep this forum fair, I have frequently closed threads that just go into a mad slanging match at Mr Hines film, this is a place of discussion and if the majority don't like the film then I am not in control of that.

I am truely tired of all the fighting all these accusations of being a shil, I am a fan, and I am getting sick to the back teeth of the stress this forum is causing me; everytime I think some big upset is over a new one comes along to replace it. I have a real life and I just can't be doing with the stress anymore.

I need to do some serious thinking about War of the Worlds online's future.

I'm tired. Really tired

[Ashe Raven]

Considering the vitorol coming out of this section I woudl almost agree with that. However what is really needed perhaps is more of a stamp down on the exsevive Hines-Hate posts which coctnstly overwhelmes this forum. Now I amnot one for a stampdown on freedom of expression, but their comes a time when that freedom is oft times abused. Comments in unrelated threads to Hine's work from certain posters also becomes tiresome. I've made it clear how I feel about this film but have tried to keep such an opinion both informed and balanced with out the anti-Hines propganda. However, I jdge a man by his actions as well and the behavour of Hines and oters leaves a lot to be desired.

Also I have kept quiet abioutthis, but the "make timbo history" sig by McTodd is liek holding a red flag to the bull and also quite a ridiculous attack. Hating someones film is not a good reason to want to bury the man. I personalyl find that Sig offensive and not in good taste. Yeah it maybe my lack of humour, but it's certainly not my lack of taste.

It's your forum Rob and I won't begrudge you ending this tthing by closing down this section. But to do so would also be a victory to those that would wish to do you harm, which was the purpose of this thread in my personal opinion. I've made it clear how sick and tired I am of the same old Sh*te coming out of this forum. This is the result. I hope that the irony of breaking a man down to give up on a section that should be for debate and not insult and attack is not lost on those responsible.

As for me, any role I played in it I apologise. I only hope Rob, yu know it was fr the best of reasons.

[Rob]

The trouble is, I'm not sure what the hell is going on anymore... I know there are sock-pupets around from every one of the people with a financial interest in HG wells story. I don't wanna run a battleground for them all anymore, and I don't want to get more heavy handed partly because it requires more time and an emotional investment aswell.

I'm not left with many options, like I said I need to do some thinking.

I'm tired of myself and the mods (and others) having to peak above the trenches all the time.

[Ashe Raven]

admin said:

I'm tired of myself and the mods (and others) having to peak above the trenches all the time.

Part of the duty mate. As an admin myself I can appreciate how you fell. To be honest though, you need to be more heavy handed, that my advice

[Commandingtripod]

admin said:

I don't wanna run a battleground for them all anymore, and I don't want to get more heavy handed partly because it requires more time and an emotional investment aswell.

I'm not left with many opinions, like I said I need to do some thinking.

I'm tired of myself and the mods (and others) having to peak above the trenches all the time.

I agree Ashe - it might be wise just to be a little more heavy handed; at least for the time being maybe?
You set the forum up Rob, so YOU should run it the way you want/imagine/would like to.

WOTW Online doesn't need this sort of stuff.
But you can count on my support if WOTW Online runs into trouble.
I think you can count on all of our support.
We love this place, so I'd hate to see ill come of it.

[FALLINGSTAR]

Rob, I know I don't run this site but I can't help thinking you're worrying about nothing. When you compare this site to others it's very mild what goes on here. I think even 'balance' boy there could see that you set this site up as a fan and in good faith - and if he can't - then that's his [ and Hines ] tough! Only an idiot would think you've set this site up to be biased for or against one film company.

I mean unless Pendragon are backed up by a bigger film company like Paramount [ who allegedly gave the go ahead for Asylums version according to balance ] how can they do anything to affect this site. They're only a tiny outfit as far as we know. If they were given the go ahead by Paramount and are tied into them in any way then yes I could understand your concern about things - as we all know what some of these big companies can be like - but as far as I can see - nothing slanderous has ever been said on here - just people saying they like or don't like things etc.

[Rob]

That's true Fallingstar, but it's very different when you are in my seat... Seeing these frays time and time again...

You'll hear more from me soon...

Time for bed

[balance]

I have seen Rob Kinder try to moderate in a fair fashion for the most part. The Maketimbohistory handle and your support of the Blackmoon, 25 minute attack film created out of illegally obtained images, funny or not, or even calling Tim "Timbo" when it was announced on this site that he didn't like to be called that, was some of the bias showing through. How would anybody feel about somebody posting links to a site showing a video with footage from Jeff Wayne's concert and making jokes designed to stop Jeff Wayne from making sales.

I feel that my complaints were somewhat addressed. I just want you all that have participated in this over the top destruction of Tim far beyond the scope of fan discussion has made a lot of people angry at this forum and a couple of others. Many have built a deep anamosity toward Jeff wayne and his movie coming out next year. No doubt, some of Tim's cast and crew are counting the days 'till payback. I suspect it is going to hurt as you have hurt dozens of artists in your sloppy need to attack every creative detail in Tim's movie into the ground ten times over. You guys need to know that many of the things you attributed directly to tim were the work of other artists. Yes, we were all strapped by money and time. You can blame Tim if you want for not announcing from the rooftops that we were tight financially. But Tim worked day and night, without a day off for months to bring out this movie.

Tim never made a single public comment against anybody (except Paramount for their constant letters from attornies) until Jeff Wayne's people started writing and calling in secret to spill inner workings of and gripe about Jeff Wayne's company(ies).

As for Amazon reviews, I found several places on this site soliciting people to write bad reviews against Pendragon! There are even chats how to post multiple times. Maybe some of Tim's supporters did fight back, but we on this end all watched bad reviews start before anybody had the movie in their hands. You who wrote many bad review, like McTodd, who openly laughed about it, are just as guilty.

It was Jeff Wayne's own people who said in confidence, most of the things I wrote in my letter that started this post. No, I mean no harm to Rob Kinder or this site. However, the attacks on Tim have been far too personal and far too deep for far too long for one movie to have caused the average fan that much grief.

So you drove Tim to show the press what you are doing and then you acted against a reporter who was verifying Tim's comments to him. guess what, you failed the test that Pendragon supporters are in any way welcome here. You have genuinly harmed many people other than Tim. And your arrogance that you think you can treat people that way and they will lie down and take it is the arrogance of ignorance. It is and will come home to roost with you and Jeff wayne's CGI movie when the time comes, (which is more than likely, much further off than 2008). Tim doesn't have to do a thing. there are plenty of people wtih whom you have far crossed the line with your insults and attacks.

Guns holstered.

[Rob]

OK balance, you've had your say now, I'm locking this thread as I don't want another War in this part of the site.