alabaster
Full Member
Watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's...
Posts: 112
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Post by alabaster on May 31, 2005 19:50:19 GMT
It is interesting to note his use of the words, "inferior races". I have also read his history of the world and he freely uses terms, such as Aryan, that are violently taboo today.
It just goes to show you that the Nazi philosophy did not emerge in a vacuum; there is a tendancy to forget that that mode of thought was the norm, not the exception, for most people, even radical socialist liberals like Wells.
So what is he saying in these two paragraphs? Is he satirising his people's justification of wars of extermination on racial grounds, or does he honestly believe the Martians have a claim to our world, because they are racially superior to us?
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Post by RickyB on Jun 1, 2005 8:36:25 GMT
and he was only 21!
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Post by <[Iron Man]> on Jun 1, 2005 18:29:53 GMT
Well no ones perfect
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Post by mctoddridesagain on Jun 6, 2005 11:36:38 GMT
Interesting questions Alabaster. I suspect that Wells's attitudes to race were rather complex. Having not read enough of his work, I cannot really comment on how his views may have developed (and changed) over time. However, you may want to read this chapter from 'A Modern Utopia' (1905, so not too long after WotW) which is concerned almost entirely with 'race': www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hgwells/1905/modern-utopia/ch10.htmThere is much to think on there, too much to quote from extensively. However, here is Wells on the extermination of races: Note the comments concerning the British. To me they are slightly sardonic. I believe his comments in WotW are also to be read in that spirit. The chapter of 'A Modern Utopia' actually excoriates racism, though Wells uses language we would perhaps blanch at on the whole. His attitude is that there are so many differences between individuals within a race that to speak of an 'average Englishman' is as absurd as an 'average Chinaman'. He condemns those who take their 'average Englishman' to be wholesome, intelligent, vigorous etc., and then compare him with an 'average Chinaman' who is lazy, shifty, stupid etc. In other words, the tendency to take the best of one's own and compare it with the worst of the other, thereby making no point at all. To Wells, also, the idea of 'inferior' races is as ludicrous as 'superior' races. Wells states as follows, in a passage which directly precedes the one above: The last sentence is incredibly harsh (and naturally runs on into the discussion of extermination above) but it isn't a justification for 'ethnic cleansing' as Wells did not (at least in 1905) believe in an 'inferior race' - he is merely taking the logic to its absurd end. Of course, there is much else in Wells's beliefs that most do find repugnant today - he was a eugenicist and believed in weeding out the 'unfit'. But he did not believe that any one race could be declared 'unfit' entire of itself. Wells may have been an elitist, but he wasn't a racist (or, at least, not by the common standards of his day).
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Post by quaderni on Jun 7, 2005 1:29:13 GMT
Great points on the race issue.
The word 'race', for Victorians, meant a lot of things - it implied family, community, biological variations (sub-species and variations within a family) and also human variation. Hence you have references to 'races' of plants, or 'races' of dogs, for instance. Darwin's work was chock full of these references, though Darwin himself was anti-racist and anti-slavery (although evangelical fascists in the US smear him with those words, they aren't true).
As a number of historians have pointed out, Victorian society was so racist that people used race to explain, quite literally, everything about the human condition. Even people who were anti-racist, in their politics and public pronouncements, still thought in 'racist' terms.
A really interesting book on this subject is by John Efron, entitled _Defenders of the Race_. It shows how deeply race thinking penetrated Victorian thought in England, Germany, and Russia.
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Post by mctoddridesagain on Jun 7, 2005 16:22:20 GMT
Efron’s book sounds really interesting, Quaderni, I’ll look out for it.
As you say, ‘race’ was a bit of a catch-all term for the Victorians, being used with striking imprecision. And even those who were liberal for their day spoke and wrote in racial terms we would find disconcerting today.
As I said before, although Wells was certainly a eugenicist (a whole new can of worms in its own right!), his views on race weren’t as cut & dried as some seem to suggest (there are various Christian websites which condemn him for racism as well as eugenicism). And during a life as long as his, if there were shifts in his thought, then that is scarcely to be wondered at.
Certainly a poke around on the internet finds some curiosities, little gems even.
In a conversation in 1930 between Wells and Rabindranath Tagore, the Indian poet and spiritual guru (he was a close friend of Ghandi), the following exchange took place:
TAGORE: Do you think there are any fundamental racial difficulties?
WELLS: No. New races are appearing and reappearing, perpetual fluctuations. There have been race mixtures from the earliest times; India is the supreme example of this. In Bengal, for instance, there has been an amazing mixture of races in spite of caste and other barriers.
TAGORE: Then there is the question of racial pride. Can the West fully acknowledge the East? If mutual acceptance is not possible, then I shall be very sorry for that country which rejects another's culture. Study can bring no harm, though men like Dr. Haas and Henri Matisse seem to think that the eastern mind should not go outside eastern countries, and then everything will be all right.
WELLS: I hope you disagree. So do I!
TAGORE: It is regrettable that any race or nation should claim divine favouritism and assume inherent superiority to all others in the scheme of creation.
WELLS: The supremacy of the West is only a question of probably the past hundred years. Before the battle of Lepanto the Turks were dominating the West; the voyage of Columbus was undertaken to avoid the Turks. Elizabethan writers and even their successors were struck by the wealth and the high material standards of the East. The history of western ascendancy is very brief indeed.
On the subject of miscegenation, some writers claim Wells to have been dead set against it, as was the general custom. But various of his writings suggest otherwise. In ‘The Open Conspiracy’, Wells states:
‘To exaggerate the dangers and evils of miscegenation is a weakness of our time. Man interbreeds with all his varieties and yet deludes himself that there are races of outstanding purity, the "Nordic," the "Semitic," and so forth. These are phantoms of the imagination.’
And the frankly unpleasant Earnest Sevier Cox, writing in ‘White America: The American Racial Problem as Seen in a Worldwide Perspective’ (1937), denounced Wells thus:
‘…H.G. Wells finds fault with the white Americans for their social exclusion of the American mixbreeds, “who are of their own blood.” That such a writer as Wells should at this late date be an apostle of miscegenation is evidence that the Negro problem has ramifications beyond the Negro race.’
When a scumbag like Cox condemns a man, he must be doing something right!
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Post by quaderni on Jun 7, 2005 22:45:23 GMT
Cheers to Wells. If a scumbag like Cox denounces him, he's clearly doing something right.
I'm reminded of the recent exchange on the Daily Show, here in the US. John Stewart ran clips of Robert Novak, Pat Buchanan, and Gordon Liddy denouncing Mark Felt, the informant 'Deep Throat' who ratted out Nixon.
Stewart said:
-- Novak, Buchanan, and Liddy hate Mark Felt. Mark Felt is a great man.
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