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Post by deadsword on Jun 18, 2006 8:34:02 GMT
If this sort of Invasion had really happened what would the clean-up, rebuilding operation be like? I bet it would take 10-20 years if not more and during that time would the human race be thrown back to the stone age? Or would there be some sort of civilization still around? A billion deaths is alot of death and on that note would they still be counting the dead 20 years later?
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Post by Happy Chappy on Jun 18, 2006 13:07:05 GMT
What a heavy question for a sunday morning!
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Post by Topaz on Jun 18, 2006 16:27:43 GMT
The collapse of infrastructure would be the major problem. It would require long supply lines from any areas that could still 'produce' to the reconstruction forces. How long it would take would depend largely upon how effectively you could move goods around into the areas you need them.
On the other hand, I recall 'experts' saying that it would take twenty-five years to extinguish and cap all the burning wells in the Iraqi oil fields after the first Gulf war. IIRC, it actually took about eight months.
We'd probably rebuild the vast majority of things in a couple of years, IMHO.
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Post by Killraven on Jun 18, 2006 17:26:05 GMT
Okay well how long is it projected to take to rebuild New Orleans?
Perhaps we could use that as a benchmark...?
KR
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Post by Topaz on Jun 19, 2006 4:30:52 GMT
I understand better than half the population has moved back in there already - and I'll bet a large proportion of the remainder aren't going to move back at all. Texas has already been gearing up for large numbers of people staying on permanently.
Supposedly the tourist district is largely rebuilt already, and it's the outlying (poorest) areas that are lagging - no suprise with either of those. Speculators have been gobbling up land like there's no tomorrow, and it's expected that overall, New Orleans will end up significantly more affluent (and expensive) than it was before. That's not a good thing from the point of view of the lower-income refugees and the surrounding states that are having to take them in permanently.
My own, completely uneducated, guess is that New Orleans will be mostly 'rebuilt' within eighteen months of Katrina. Two years at the outside.
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Post by deadsword on Jun 19, 2006 4:42:52 GMT
Yah New Orleans might be a good example but we are talking about something much more intense, making Katrina and other storms seem like a picnic. I mean this is something like say hundreds to thousands of nukes were detonated with in less than a week to a month, just with out radiation effects. I say half the population would be in the stone age for awhile.
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Post by Tripod on Jun 19, 2006 6:56:10 GMT
Would it be fair to say that an estimated two outta three died in this war?
Tripod
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Post by Commandingtripod on Jun 19, 2006 7:06:19 GMT
Also another problem that we would need to over come is leadership.
Most of the leaders (Prime Ministers, Presidents, etc) were probably killed in the invasion. If any survived, what are the chances that people are gonna listen to them again.
Most would probably try and gain power for themselves. So then you've got that to which would hinder the reconstruction effort to.
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Post by Topaz on Jun 19, 2006 13:59:28 GMT
Also another problem that we would need to over come is leadership. Most of the leaders (Prime Ministers, Presidents, etc) were probably killed in the invasion. If any survived, what are the chances that people are gonna listen to them again. Most would probably try and gain power for themselves. So then you've got that to which would hinder the reconstruction effort to. Hmmmm. Possibly, I suppose. Yet the family felt perfectly comfortable walking out into the street for the touching "I love you Dad" scene, and the military seemed under good order and control as the Martians were dying. It would seem that there was still some kind of functional command and control system in-place, and that once the Martians were gone, people felt relatively safe. I'm sure it would be the same for you Brits, but our leadership would be tucked into the nearest deep hidey-hole very quickly the moment it was obvious that Air Force One wasn't safe. They'd keep things going from Cheyenne Mountain, which would appear to be distinctly 'heat ray' proof, and is already hardened against EMP. "No anarchy here, folks. Move along. Move along." And since reporters are about as survivable as cockroaches, I don't think even under these circumstances the leadership could get away with being much more despotic than they already are. You don't need electricity to print a newspaper, after all, and the military has families, too. So, IMHO, stone age? Nahhhh. Maybe a little nineteenth-century in many areas for a while - candles and walking to wherever you need to go - but probably not stone age. If two-thirds of the population has vanished, then the food problem solves itself: you've got stores and supermarkets filled with canned goods enough to last for months if the population is down that much. But that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by nervouspete on Jun 19, 2006 23:42:57 GMT
"I love you dad!"
"Thank you Ray!"
"I love you guys!"
Five days later.
All: "Argh. Typhus."
(Dies)
The trouble is not just the direct effects of the rays and black smoke (it was in the original script and I'm counting it), but several factors. I've broken it down like this...
Direct war deaths: 2,250,000,000
Mainly in cities and towns. The tripods were there for two weeks and I count the use of black smoke.
Starvation: 1,000,000,000
The red weed destroyed a lot of arable land, and the entire global infrastructure was knocked out of whack.
Disease: 750,000,000
Combination of bodies left by above causes outbreaks of typhus etc.
Total: 4,000,000,000 - two thirds of the population.
Society would have a problem ever getting back to the previous stage, as most surface metals have already been used and current mechanical resources would rust and decay without the people with know how to use 'em, since the aliens took out power stations etc. I'd say return to mid 19th century for developed nations, 17th for poorer nations, for as long a a century. I think population would be lower and would never reach the current overpopulation we have, stabilising at around three to three and a half billion.
We only know the situation in Boston, but with seven tripods in London in one tight angle news shot, six around the ferry, at least six in Boston and one in Ray's town... I think we're talking an invasion of thousands of them with no qualms about levelling major population centres. Apocalypse basically. If Spielberg's WOTW had been a Band of Brothers style mini-series, it would have been ace to take the last three episodes of post war and see what was.
As it is, I'm covering it in my fan fiction 'The Great Invasion', of which you shall get more tomorrow! But any quibbles with my ideas or suggestions about the toll and damage, let me know via this thread!
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Post by Lensman on Jun 21, 2006 2:40:44 GMT
Altho I wouldn't venture to guess at numbers as NervousPete has, I think he's looking at this a lot more realistically than others here. It looked to me like *every* major city was invaded and devastated. Remember the economic effect the destruction of the World Trade Center had on the U.S.? Now multiply that by 10,000 or so. Welcome to an economic collapse which would make the Great Depression look like a weekend stock market bobble. It's said that when the Black Plague devastated Europe and killed off about 30% of the population, that this was on the verge of causing economic collapse. What percentage of the population would you say was killed off? If every city was devastated like we saw in the movie, and if 90% of Americans live in urban areas... I think we're talking more than 30% here.
If we were lucky, some industrialized areas might retain enuff control and technology to stop their fall at a late industrial age level of technology-- say 1890 or so, with some electrical power in at least a few areas. If we weren't lucky... welcome to a new dark ages. How long would it take to rebuild? At least many decades. Quite possibly centuries.
The United States as a nation would not survive. Nor would any other large nation. They would become fragmented, with many areas under total anarchy or at best a "strong man" feudal structure.
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Post by wotwfan48 on Jun 26, 2006 18:13:39 GMT
In a few words, it would be the end of the world as we know it, I dont know if i would want to live or die, in a Drama like this. I also presume 3/4 of the population dead. All the citys destroyed, some flat line, other partially, but with no infrastruture, they can't save the city's partially destroyed. it is gone forvever. All we need food, medecine water etc, will be very hard to find, one day it will be better, but it takes time. We had everything, and lost it in about 14 days or so. Can say in heart beat.Chantale.
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Post by Herulian Martian on Jul 31, 2006 15:39:40 GMT
Yah New Orleans might be a good example but we are talking about something much more intense, making Katrina and other storms seem like a picnic. I mean this is something like say hundreds to thousands of nukes were detonated with in less than a week to a month, just with out radiation effects. I say half the population would be in the stone age for awhile. Firing all those nukes at the aliens might take them out...but it would knock us for a loop. However, we would have access to their tech and most likely we would end up stronger than before. Also, we would be expecting them to try again...so their next attack might be met with surviving ICBMs as well as new weapons based off of their captured tech. Finally, we may advance enough to the point that we find their home planet and bring the War of the Worlds back to them... Hydrogen bombs (probably very dirty ones) would be the best weapon for destroying them and their planet's ecology! Whether it be Mars or some extrasolar world, leaving them with an irradiated and toxic world would be their just desserts!
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Post by deadsword on Aug 2, 2006 5:43:38 GMT
This reminds me of a book about going back to Mars to attack them after what they did to us and something to do about it being led by Thomas Edison. I think i saw something about it over in the eve forum.
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Post by Lensman on Aug 2, 2006 7:46:20 GMT
Edison's Conquest of Mars by Garrett P. Serviss. I haven't read it myself, but both critical review and a good friend of mine say it's truly an abysmal novel. What is it about Wells' classic that seems to keep attracting such bottom-of-the-barrel tie-ins? The Serviss so-called "sequel", the "War of the Worlds" TV series which is the worst science fiction TV show I ever saw, and of course the latest outrage, Pendragon's "instant masterpiece". What deep, dark universal forces at work in the murky ether are causing such a vast alignment of absolute cowflop? Move over, Timbo-- I think *I* am becoming a conspiracy theorist!
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Post by Commandingtripod on Aug 2, 2006 7:49:34 GMT
The tripods were there for two weeks. Really? I didn't seem like that long in the movie - maybe it's just me and I'm wrong. You've done a lot more on the subject than I have (And probably ever will ).
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Post by deadsword on Aug 6, 2006 5:15:25 GMT
If this sort of Invasion had really happened what would the clean-up, rebuilding operation be like? I bet it would take 10-20 years if not more and during that time would the human race be thrown back to the stone age? Or would there be some sort of civilization still around? A billion deaths is alot of death and on that note would they still be counting the dead 20 years later? But suppose some other alien race or civilization had showed up, human or other wise and with the save level of scientific, tech knowledge of the attackers,(if not even more advanced)just before or sometime after the alien invaders died to help defeat the aliens, clean up the mess and maybe to help us protect ourselves from any other invasions from attackers or others.
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Post by Commandingtripod on Aug 6, 2006 8:31:11 GMT
Also the tripods would have been left intact to.
That would have advanced human tech a lot. As my friend said: "All the humans gotta do is hope in the tripod, power them up and they have a huge weapon there."
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Post by nervouspete on Aug 6, 2006 12:24:10 GMT
Hmm, I'm not convinced that we could use their technology. As Arthur C Clarke said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," and they probably have entirely different methods of control. 'Independance Day' this is not, and I'm afraid that the alien machines definitely wouldn't be Apple Mac compatible. As for the two week thing Commanding Tripod, I worked it out by looking on a map at Ray's route. Day 1: No invasion in the US, but reports of storms in Ukraine. Given time lag for first reports to filter in to US networks, that gives one day so far of invasion. Day 2: Intersection, journey to mom's house. Day 3: Plane crash, driving to Athens. Day 4: Walking from ferry disaster to hill crest at early evening. Battle of the crest, basement. Day 5: Basement Day 6: Basement, Ogilvy goes a bit bonkers. Day 7: Ogilvy is killed. Sleep. Ray & Rachel taken, tripod destroyed. From their estimated position it takes eight days to walk to Boston on the map. Presumably by keeping away from the crowds, or by the aliens retiring briefly to construction or being out in unconquered sectors, the journey is relatively incident free. As far as relatively goes in a surreal new world under alien dominance. Therefore the total invasion time is 14-16 days. More than enough time to knock human civilization into a cocked hat. Deadsword - we can only pray that there's an alien UN who'd get involved in that case. Interesting idea.
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Post by wotwfan48 on Aug 7, 2006 4:14:05 GMT
Also the tripods would have been left intact to. That would have advanced human tech a lot. As my friend said: "All the humans gotta do is hope in the tripod, power them up and they have a huge weapon there." Indeed. Tripods would be, a powerfull war machine for us. As long as we could make them work. of course, i know. Chantale.
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