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Post by paco417 on Jul 19, 2005 21:36:54 GMT
i am adding my voice to the CGI band wagon and agree this is the best way forward. will this be better than pendragons? damn right it will! will it be better than spielbergs? quite possibly! will jeff make a total hash of the film? Hell No! looking forward to more R&D when possible and the film when its finally completed! And me up to 201 posts! spooky!
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 19, 2005 22:01:28 GMT
I think that while CGI animation is just as good as live actions for some, for more is a medium that is frowned upon and dissmissed. I think this is the main problem with doing War of the Worlds in full CGI. That it will immediatly get labelled by the mass populous as being a cartoon, for children, a lesser form of Speilbergs. It happens to Video Games, when their entertainment value and intellect is as good, or sometimes better than most live action ventures. It happens to Anime, a source of entertainment that in many ways is unrivaled, but is looked upon as being almost lowly by most people. And the sad truth is that this applies to CGI aswell. By choosing to make this film fully Computer Generated, Jeff has effectivly removed half of his audience already. Add to that its based in Victorian England, and that its based on a Musical (Which, to the passing observer of WotW it will be), it all amounts to project suicide. Personally, yes, I would prefer live action. But I also think CGI is just as worthy a substitute. And it certainly offers a more visually dynamic style - one that will be more appealing to lots... but also less appealing to lots, and lots, and lots. The simple truth is that, wether CGI people look good or bad, or wether the film will be good or bad, by making it CGI Jeff Wayne has effectivly lost a good Three Quarters of this films potential viewers. - Marcus The only thing I disagree with you there Marcus is about there being a problem with it being set in Victorian England and that the passing observer will regard it as a musical. Maybe some will but don't forget that Horsell has said that Jeff Wayne isn't making this as a musical now. He's using an orchestral score and I applaud the fact that he's going down that path. We all love his musical but I don't think people would take a big screen musical version seriously. A big screen version of WOTW set in Victorian England will be unique and unlike any other film and don't forget - I think it's fair to say that Jeff Wayne has already got a huge audience because of his musical - plus the rest. Pendragons film is no competition and not many people will get to see it - let alone even hear of it! I obviously agree with you about the cgi aspect though.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 19, 2005 22:13:38 GMT
i am adding my voice to the CGI band wagon and agree this is the best way forward. will this be better than pendragons? damn right it will! will it be better than spielbergs? quite possibly! will jeff make a total hash of the film? Hell No! looking forward to more R&D when possible and the film when its finally completed! And me up to 201 posts! spooky! I agree with most of what you say but just imagine a faithful WOTW film done in the same way as LOTRINGS or the way P.Jackson is making his period version of KING KONG - with an orchestral version of 'Eve of the War'. Don't forget Jeff Wayne is our ONLY hope for a big screen version now.
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Post by timeship2 on Jul 19, 2005 22:52:25 GMT
We have also got to be careful that we don't get too emotionally wrapped up in predicting the outcome of this movie, only to be dissapointed at the final result. I am not saying that Jeff's movie will be poor, far from it, just that we have had our hopes built up for the least two movies (Asylum I count as a bonus that we never knew was coming) and they didn't turn out as we were expecting. We have only seen R&D footage from Jeff's production and this is a far cry from seeing the movie as we know.
I am looking forward to it though despite the fact that I am one of those who would have preferred a live action movie. I have to say that if this ended up becoming just the video version of his musical with all his music then it may not be too bad a thing anyway!
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Post by Marcus on Jul 20, 2005 0:23:16 GMT
Well, I personally know that it wont be a musical, but to a casual follow of War of the Worlds, who knows Jeff did the musical, may regard a film made by him as a musical, wether it is or isnt.
In the same way that people, through arrogance, look down at something fully CGI they will also miss the fact that this isnt a musical.
But it is a good point about it being unique enough to pull in people. My only gripe was that the mass populous might see the combination of CGI, and a Victorian Setting a turn off, two unrelated things, joined together to create a negative impression of the film by casual observers.
I do agree that a live action version would be better, and not completly out of limits with the budget either. I think they something similar to Sky Captain and the World of Tommorow, Sin City, or Star Wars Episode III could be done, using all green screen, and then filling in the backgrounds.
As we know, machines and backgrounds work perfectly fine in full CGI, were as humans still leave a lot to be desired. To get around this I think this approach would be good. And probally reachable in their budget fairly easily. Especially if they hired no name actors, a move that would also add credit to the story, instead of say Speilbergs choice to go down the star route.
Yes, this technique turned out poorly for Pendragon, but with real, solid CGI effects, it could work perfectly, like my above examples.
I have some problems with going down this route, one being that it takes away, somewhat, from the acting process, and can make performances seemed stiffled and wooden - such as McGregors in Episode III.
But, I would prefer this over CGI people anyday.
A combination of the two, is what Im sudgesting here. I think it could work very well. To make all organic things real, and those that the actors interact with, also real.
But, Im really just glad the film is being made, wether its how Id prefer it or not.
Personally my favorite episode of the Animatrix is Final Flight of the Osiris, which is, for those of you not in the know, the only full CGI episode of the series - I personally love the vivid, but somehow detached from reality impression that level of CGI has.
For anyone who has seen the Collectors Edition booklet, the humans in their look rather poor, compared to the detail of other things - such as machinery or not - if these are the final product then I will be very dissapointed, and, although I doubt it, there was a reason these images were made, and their style will also, obviously be kept for the final film. I just hope they detail them more, but not overly.
- Marcus
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 20, 2005 1:01:24 GMT
Yes Sky Captain is a great example of what could be achieved and I also agree about the actors. If I was Jeff Wayne and I was making a live action movie I'd go along the similar line of what George Lucas did with Star Wars and what Peter Jackson did with LOTRings - i.e. virtually unknown actors that have proved themselves as great actors in legitimate films or tv productions [ unlike Spielberg choosing an over exposed star who's not known as a great actor or someone elses extremely low budget film, where the actors sound as if they've come from the local pantomime, hint, hint].
He has one big name anyway - Richard Burton which he will be using so that gives the project enormous credibility for a start.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Jul 20, 2005 12:38:42 GMT
I have spent time with Jeff talking about TWOTW and if we put all the loyal TWOTW fans off this site together we still would not match Jeffs ambitious and emotional interest in bringing TWOTW to the screen as it should be. What you have to realise is that Jeff owns the rights to TWOTW in the areas that does not - i.e, Paramount own film rights and TWOTW novel is public demain in the U.S. He also owns the merchandising rights and musical rights, but not the film rights which are owned by Paramount, so Jeff had to get permission from Paramount to start this project. In the long run, the easiest solution is for Jeff to create a film that is based upon not on the book but his musical version. This would stop Paramount getting all shirty over him making a straight forward film as they own those rights. I have never in my life spoken to a TWOTW fan who is so passionate than Jeff. OK, so he did not follow his musical version to the book exactly, but you guys can agree it is the closest of all things TWOTW out there to what H.G wrote. When Jeffs album came out it was 2 things that has stuck in fans minds all the years - the musical story and the artwork. It has been Jeffs goal to bring TWOTW to the screen in a version that foloows H.G book and ties in his musical, this film will do that. The film will not be a direct interpratation of the album or book, but a combination of both, drawn together to create a film like no other that will please all TWOTW fans in some way or other.
Paramount brought us the 53 version that Jeff does not like, its NOT TWOTW he says. His musical is the closest, and he being a composer, orchestrator, producer is creating a film on those lines of a musical and not a film director/producer, but Im sure he will give it his best shot. We have 4 TWOTW films now released so this is a challenge to Jeff (as I see it) as he knows he has to deliver the goods. You read what he said about the recent Spielberg film!. I agree with you guys, our hope for a authentic adaptation of H.G novel now lies with Jeff and I know for sure he will pull it off. And what will this film be like, well here is part of the 'official' statement from Jeff Wayne Music - "The film will stay true to the HG Wells' novel, being set in Victorian England and will of course make good use of Jeff's music!" - this tells me that he will give us the film we want but using HIS machines, HIS music and some of the albums original stars - now, can we argue with that?. . . . Two for the price of one.
Even the H.G.Wells family /estate has said what a remarkable job he did with his musical version and how it stays close to H.G's work.
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Post by Refugee on Jul 20, 2005 12:50:37 GMT
Without wishing to sound crude, I don't really give a damn, Im just really excited that they are making one at all.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 20, 2005 21:05:13 GMT
I have spent time with Jeff talking about TWOTW and if we put all the loyal TWOTW fans off this site together we still would not match Jeffs ambitious and emotional interest in bringing TWOTW to the screen as it should be. What you have to realise is that Jeff owns the rights to TWOTW in the areas that does not - i.e, Paramount own film rights and TWOTW novel is public demain in the U.S. He also owns the merchandising rights and musical rights, but not the film rights which are owned by Paramount, so Jeff had to get permission from Paramount to start this project. In the long run, the easiest solution is for Jeff to create a film that is based upon not on the book but his musical version. This would stop Paramount getting all shirty over him making a straight forward film as they own those rights. I have never in my life spoken to a TWOTW fan who is so passionate than Jeff. OK, so he did not follow his musical version to the book exactly, but you guys can agree it is the closest of all things TWOTW out there to what H.G wrote. When Jeffs album came out it was 2 things that has stuck in fans minds all the years - the musical story and the artwork. It has been Jeffs goal to bring TWOTW to the screen in a version that foloows H.G book and ties in his musical, this film will do that. The film will not be a direct interpratation of the album or book, but a combination of both, drawn together to create a film like no other that will please all TWOTW fans in some way or other. Paramount brought us the 53 version that Jeff does not like, its NOT TWOTW he says. His musical is the closest, and he being a composer, orchestrator, producer is creating a film on those lines of a musical and not a film director/producer, but Im sure he will give it his best shot. We have 4 TWOTW films now released so this is a challenge to Jeff (as I see it) as he knows he has to deliver the goods. You read what he said about the recent Spielberg film!. I agree with you guys, our hope for a authentic adaptation of H.G novel now lies with Jeff and I know for sure he will pull it off. And what will this film be like, well here is part of the 'official' statement from Jeff Wayne Music - "The film will stay true to the HG Wells' novel, being set in Victorian England and will of course make good use of Jeff's music!" - this tells me that he will give us the film we want but using HIS machines, HIS music and some of the albums original stars - now, can we argue with that?. . . . Two for the price of one. Even the H.G.Wells family /estate has said what a remarkable job he did with his musical version and how it stays close to H.G's work. Of course and I agree with combining elements from the musical and a faithful adaptation into the film. I'm slightly confused about what you said about 'creating a film on those lines of a musical' as I thought Jeff Wayne wasn't doing this as a musical now - but he will be using an orchestral soundtrack version of his songs instead. Something I think we can all agree is the best way to go. As I've said though my concerns are that this film could end being regarded as nothing more than a glorified cartoon [ you know what some people are like ] and even though a totally cgi version could be a great film I still think a live action epic would be better. I would also love to see some tripods that are the same as the descriptions in the book 'aswell as' the Wayne/Trim tripods. I think it might be a good idea to have different variations of the tripods and handling machines anyway.
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Post by jeffwaynefan on Jul 20, 2005 21:22:21 GMT
I have spent time with Jeff talking about TWOTW and if we put all the loyal TWOTW fans off this site together we still would not match Jeffs ambitious and emotional interest in bringing TWOTW to the screen as it should be. What you have to realise is that Jeff owns the rights to TWOTW in the areas that does not - i.e, Paramount own film rights and TWOTW novel is public demain in the U.S. He also owns the merchandising rights and musical rights, but not the film rights which are owned by Paramount, so Jeff had to get permission from Paramount to start this project. In the long run, the easiest solution is for Jeff to create a film that is based upon not on the book but his musical version. This would stop Paramount getting all shirty over him making a straight forward film as they own those rights. I have never in my life spoken to a TWOTW fan who is so passionate than Jeff. OK, so he did not follow his musical version to the book exactly, but you guys can agree it is the closest of all things TWOTW out there to what H.G wrote. When Jeffs album came out it was 2 things that has stuck in fans minds all the years - the musical story and the artwork. It has been Jeffs goal to bring TWOTW to the screen in a version that foloows H.G book and ties in his musical, this film will do that. The film will not be a direct interpratation of the album or book, but a combination of both, drawn together to create a film like no other that will please all TWOTW fans in some way or other. Paramount brought us the 53 version that Jeff does not like, its NOT TWOTW he says. His musical is the closest, and he being a composer, orchestrator, producer is creating a film on those lines of a musical and not a film director/producer, but Im sure he will give it his best shot. We have 4 TWOTW films now released so this is a challenge to Jeff (as I see it) as he knows he has to deliver the goods. You read what he said about the recent Spielberg film!. I agree with you guys, our hope for a authentic adaptation of H.G novel now lies with Jeff and I know for sure he will pull it off. And what will this film be like, well here is part of the 'official' statement from Jeff Wayne Music - "The film will stay true to the HG Wells' novel, being set in Victorian England and will of course make good use of Jeff's music!" - this tells me that he will give us the film we want but using HIS machines, HIS music and some of the albums original stars - now, can we argue with that?. . . . Two for the price of one. Even the H.G.Wells family /estate has said what a remarkable job he did with his musical version and how it stays close to H.G's work. Of course and I agree with combining elements from the musical and a faithful adaptation into the film. I'm slightly confused about what you said about 'creating a film on those lines of a musical' as I thought Jeff Wayne wasn't doing this as a musical now - but he will be using an orchestral soundtrack version of his songs instead. Something I think we can all agree is the best way to go. As I've said though my concerns are that this film could end being regarded as nothing more than a glorified cartoon [ you know what some people are like ] and even though a totally cgi version could be a great film I still think a live action epic would be better. I would also love to see some tripods that are the same as the descriptions in the book 'aswell as' the Wayne/Trim tripods. I think it might be a good idea to have different variations of the tripods and handling machines anyway. It doesn't matter how you cut it, this film will always have the musical link big time because thats how it started life. The film will certainly be taken seriously, but its a combination of H.Gs book and Jeff's musical version - how you look at that is entirely up to you. The music will be re-worked, it has to be, but at this early stage it does not appear to be a 'musical' but will include his music. Think about it, a film and story to be taken seriously, can you imagine a CGI charactor stopping midway to suddenly start singing and dancing - to much work involved.
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Ulaaaa!
Full Member
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Posts: 102
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Post by Ulaaaa! on Jul 20, 2005 21:24:40 GMT
If they play the second track from the musical as the Martians emerge I'll love it to bits
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Post by theredweed on Jul 21, 2005 0:36:19 GMT
Well other actors could play the characters easy enough and Burtons voice could still be used.[/quote]
You cant do this, first off you would have to find a cast that could lip sinc to the audio track perfectly to make it good. it is so much easier to do it in animated form
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Post by Peter on Jul 22, 2005 14:53:47 GMT
I think when you look at animations such as "Spirited Away" - the medium of animation is very good for film.
I'm really looking forward to the WOTW animated film from Jeff Wayne. I think there is a lot more that you can achieve in an animation and it shouldn't be ruled out for mainstream film.
I think a live action, or even mixed live action/animation (such as Sky Captain) would be a bad idea.
In addition, the costs would increase vastly for using actors - especially if you get A-list celebrities.
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Post by frodo5646 on Jul 22, 2005 17:02:22 GMT
I was just over on the other WotW message board saying something similar, that I'd like to see someone try using the book's settings in a (good) live action film, but not Jeff's version. I really love the idea that his film will look a lot like the artwork on the album.
Has anyone seen "Where the Wind Blows"? I liken it to this because it had lovely animation that belied a deadly subject, and the one-two punch that created was stunning. I think the WotW in animation, based on what we've seen so far at Jeff's official site, will be utterly horrific and great. Looking very forward to it!
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Post by theredweed on Jul 22, 2005 17:09:33 GMT
I agree with peter, sky captain was nuts, love the scene where they walk across the bumpy log but seem to have a flat walk, he he.
I have hopes that I have will be soone given the green light to create a live action with digital effects set in britian in 2005, but following the story. Just need some the director to say yes then we are ready to look for the actors. Finger crossed
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 22, 2005 18:46:45 GMT
I think when you look at animations such as "Spirited Away" - the medium of animation is very good for film. I'm really looking forward to the WOTW animated film from Jeff Wayne. I think there is a lot more that you can achieve in an animation and it shouldn't be ruled out for mainstream film. I think a live action, or even mixed live action/animation (such as Sky Captain) would be a bad idea. In addition, the costs would increase vastly for using actors - especially if you get A-list celebrities. I'm also looking forward to seeing what Jeff Wayne does [ as I've said loads of times] and no-one's saying that the medium of animation isn't good and yes Spirited Away does look really great but as good as it is it still will be regarded as a cartoon by some people. Spirited away is also conventional animation and that wouldn't be acceptable for Jeffs film. Jeff Wayne wouldn't have to get A list celebrities for his film - just decent unknown or reasonably well known actors who wouldn't cost a fortune. As I've said just look at some of the BBC productions of recent years such as DR WHO or WALKING WITH DINOSAURS. Expensive tv productions yes but Jeff Wayne is supposed to have more money at his disposal and his is just one film. Hopefully a lavish spectacular one yes but I'm sure Envious Eyes could do a live action film just as well as an animated film.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 22, 2005 18:56:13 GMT
I agree with peter, sky captain was nuts, love the scene where they walk across the bumpy log but seem to have a flat walk, he he. I have hopes that I have will be soone given the green light to create a live action with digital effects set in britian in 2005, but following the story. Just need some the director to say yes then we are ready to look for the actors. Finger crossed Sounds interesting but I'm sure I can speak for at least 95% of HG Wells fans. We want a decent live action version of the book. There really is no substitute for the combination of the Victorian setting and the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. This is what makes the story unique.
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Post by Peter on Jul 22, 2005 19:00:48 GMT
I was just over on the other WotW message board saying something similar, that I'd like to see someone try using the book's settings in a (good) live action film, but not Jeff's version. I really love the idea that his film will look a lot like the artwork on the album. Has anyone seen "Where the Wind Blows"? I liken it to this because it had lovely animation that belied a deadly subject, and the one-two punch that created was stunning. I think the WotW in animation, based on what we've seen so far at Jeff's official site, will be utterly horrific and great. Looking very forward to it! The thing that set When The Wind Blows apart from all other animated films was that the sound of silence, the washed out/sepia tones over the images, and the fact that it was two characters that you felt sorry for. I've seen a fair few animations in my time, some of the Manga work first - up to modern day computer CGI. Based on the Blue Monkey footage, and the artwork in general - it also has that washed out/sepia look and I think the film although animated will probably look more like an actual live film. If you remember the scene from the artwork book where people are running down the street and the FM is firing at the building - the people, horses and atmosphere almost seemed real - just in a still drawing. If JW can retain that level of artwork, but animate it - then we're in for a treat IMHO.
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Post by theredweed on Jul 23, 2005 22:29:53 GMT
I agree with peter, sky captain was nuts, love the scene where they walk across the bumpy log but seem to have a flat walk, he he. I have hopes that I have will be soone given the green light to create a live action with digital effects set in britian in 2005, but following the story. Just need some the director to say yes then we are ready to look for the actors. Finger crossed Sounds interesting but I'm sure I can speak for at least 95% of HG Wells fans. We want a decent live action version of the book. There really is no substitute for the combination of the Victorian setting and the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. This is what makes the story unique. I agree I want a live action verion of the book, but I dont think JW is right for that, he has good the great mucis behind him and already has a wonderful version (complete with amazing voices) and animation is the best way to show his story. I am trying to get my people together to create a version of the book that is true to the book, but it is taking longer that I want it to, the directors is a bit unsure as to if he wants it set in 2005 or 1898. He wants to follow the story but thinks it will be more cost effective to have it set in 2005. Anyone else a great director (with some funding, as thats what ours has to offer as well as his talents) that wants to make a 1898 version of the book? Please drop me a message.
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Post by FALLINGSTAR on Jul 24, 2005 2:07:06 GMT
But we're back again as to whether it's an amateur film or not redweed and the usual questions. How much is your budget? Can you produce great state of the art cgi effects? Will it be a cinema release or straight to dvd? What actors will you be using? Will the film have an epic feel and quality to it and importantly - what will it be called?
As far as I know, Jeff Wayne holds the rights to the title - THE War of the Worlds. It's all very well making a faithful film set in Victorian England but if it's not called THE War of the Worlds then what's the point?
That's one of the things that's so annoying about Pendragons film. They've pinched the title HG WELLS THE WAR OF THE WORLDS so that it might be awkward for others to use it and we should have had a big budget cinema release film called HG WELLS THE WAR OF THE WORLDS instead of the extremely low budget crap they gave us. I'm also glad that Spielbergs equally crap film was called WAR OF THE WORLDS instead of THE WAR OF THE WORLDS.
Jeff Wayne is our ONLY hope for a reasonably budgeted film called THE War of the Worlds that will be in the cinemas - that's why I would prefer he did it live action.
No more half baked, half titled excuses for THE original alien invasion story. We've had too many already and not the real deal - which is appalling!
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